Mascherano developments

[AFII]

I realise he plays a different role for Argentina but, with respect, you get far more time on the ball at international level than in the Premiership. From what I've seen on Mascher over the last 12 months for Liverpool he is totally ineffective going forward.

I am not saying he isn't a good player nor am I saying we shouldn't try to sign him. What I am saying is that I would expect a more complete midfielder for £17m. I personally would only value Mascherano at about £10m - £12m.

Fair point. I would myself sign a player like Diego or Van der Vaart before Masch because we need more attacking options.

I don't think Masch is overpriced. He is the best in the world in what he is doing and without a player like him we would have more or less no chance against teams like Barca when we must defend a lot.

[Pablo]

As long as you stick to being your usual happy-go-lucky cheery little self...

Too much arguing on here thats all, it makes my head hurt.

Group hug anyone?

[Tom]

Goody gum drops, another rumour for the halfwits to get hysterical about.

mmm. classy, careful of that high-horse nial you might fall off.

[wildman]

Like what? He can pass to a player nearby but he dosn't play long, incisive passes. How many assists has he got? And I reckon Pepe's got more chance of scoring than Mascherano!

Don't get me wrong, Al, I think he's the best in the business at what he does (as I described above) but my point is that IMHO for a £17m player being a great tackler simply isn't good enough.

I think your wrong about mascer this season he is getting more forward and was controlling alot of the play going forward the other night and was hitting cross field passes to the man, there's no doubt he's improved uder beneitez, don't think he'll stay though coz of the fee and if those 2 tawts are still here and plus rafa will be gone and there's no way he'll stay, the only way we;ll keep him is if rafa stays which I thik is pretty much what he has said

[Vermilion]

It's all about opinons & what you can afford, who would have thought Ferguson (the **** ) would have paid 17mil for Carrick.

[sean_lfc]

Fair point. I would myself sign a player like Diego or Van der Vaart before Masch because we need more attacking options.

I don't think Masch is overpriced. He is the best in the world in what he is doing and without a player like him we would have more or less no chance against teams like Barca when we must defend a lot.

Dont let facts get in the way of your dreamworld


European Cup - Last 16 first leg - KO 19:45
Barcelona 1 (1) - 2(1) Liverpool
Deco 14
Bellamy 43
Riise 74


Barcelona: Valdes ,Belletti ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Zambrotta ,Xavi (Giuly ,65 ) ,Motta (Iniesta ,54 ) ,Deco ,Messi ,Saviola (Gudjohnsen ,82 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used: Jorquera,Van Bronckhorst,Thuram,Oleguer,

Liverpool: Reina ,Arbeloa ,Carragher ,Agger ,Riise ,Finnan ,Sissoko (Zenden ,84 ) ,Alonso ,Gerrard ,Bellamy (Pennant ,80 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89)
Subs not used Dudek,Hyypia,Gonzalez,Mascherano,




European Cup - Last 16 second leg - KO 19:45
Liverpool 0 (0) - 1(0) Barcelona
Gudjohnsen 75

Aggregate score 2 - 2(Liverpool wins on away goals )


Liverpool: Reina ,Finnan ,Carragher ,Agger ,Arbeloa ,Gerrard ,Sissoko ,Alonso ,Riise (Aurelio ,77 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89 ) ,Bellamy (Pennant ,67)
Subs not used: Dudek,Hyypia,Mascherano,Zenden,

Barcelona: Valdes ,Thuram (Gudjohnsen ,71 ) ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Oleguer ,Xavi ,Iniesta ,Deco ,Messi ,Eto'o (Giuly ,61 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used Jorquera,Zambrotta,Edmilson,Sylvinho,Saviola,

[Johnny]

Dont let facts get in the way of your dreamworld


European Cup - Last 16 first leg - KO 19:45
Barcelona 1 (1) - 2(1) Liverpool
Deco 14
Bellamy 43
Riise 74


Barcelona: Valdes ,Belletti ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Zambrotta ,Xavi (Giuly ,65 ) ,Motta (Iniesta ,54 ) ,Deco ,Messi ,Saviola (Gudjohnsen ,82 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used: Jorquera,Van Bronckhorst,Thuram,Oleguer,

Liverpool: Reina ,Arbeloa ,Carragher ,Agger ,Riise ,Finnan ,Sissoko (Zenden ,84 ) ,Alonso ,Gerrard ,Bellamy (Pennant ,80 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89)
Subs not used Dudek,Hyypia,Gonzalez,Mascherano,




European Cup - Last 16 second leg - KO 19:45
Liverpool 0 (0) - 1(0) Barcelona
Gudjohnsen 75

Aggregate score 2 - 2(Liverpool wins on away goals )


Liverpool: Reina ,Finnan ,Carragher ,Agger ,Arbeloa ,Gerrard ,Sissoko ,Alonso ,Riise (Aurelio ,77 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89 ) ,Bellamy (Pennant ,67)
Subs not used: Dudek,Hyypia,Mascherano,Zenden,

Barcelona: Valdes ,Thuram (Gudjohnsen ,71 ) ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Oleguer ,Xavi ,Iniesta ,Deco ,Messi ,Eto'o (Giuly ,61 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used Jorquera,Zambrotta,Edmilson,Sylvinho,Saviola,

If AFII says it,it must be true.

[AFII]

Dont let facts get in the way of your dreamworld


European Cup - Last 16 first leg - KO 19:45
Barcelona 1 (1) - 2(1) Liverpool
Deco 14
Bellamy 43
Riise 74


Barcelona: Valdes ,Belletti ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Zambrotta ,Xavi (Giuly ,65 ) ,Motta (Iniesta ,54 ) ,Deco ,Messi ,Saviola (Gudjohnsen ,82 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used: Jorquera,Van Bronckhorst,Thuram,Oleguer,

Liverpool: Reina ,Arbeloa ,Carragher ,Agger ,Riise ,Finnan ,Sissoko (Zenden ,84 ) ,Alonso ,Gerrard ,Bellamy (Pennant ,80 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89)
Subs not used Dudek,Hyypia,Gonzalez,Mascherano,




European Cup - Last 16 second leg - KO 19:45
Liverpool 0 (0) - 1(0) Barcelona
Gudjohnsen 75

Aggregate score 2 - 2(Liverpool wins on away goals )


Liverpool: Reina ,Finnan ,Carragher ,Agger ,Arbeloa ,Gerrard ,Sissoko ,Alonso ,Riise (Aurelio ,77 ) ,Kuyt (Crouch ,89 ) ,Bellamy (Pennant ,67)
Subs not used: Dudek,Hyypia,Mascherano,Zenden,

Barcelona: Valdes ,Thuram (Gudjohnsen ,71 ) ,Marquez ,Puyol ,Oleguer ,Xavi ,Iniesta ,Deco ,Messi ,Eto'o (Giuly ,61 ) ,Ronaldinho
Subs not used Jorquera,Zambrotta,Edmilson,Sylvinho,Saviola,

Don't let the fact that Momo did that job in that game and that he now will leave us stop you.



Now, go back to your dreamworld.

[dww]

Don't let the fact that Momo did that job in that game and that he now will leave us.



Now, go back to your dreamworld.

The point still stands though that with a midfielder of a different type who cost far less we did beat Barcelona. The player who you argue we need to have any chance against them didn't even get on the pitch when we beat them. I don't think many people are arguing that we shouldn't consider bringing in another defensive midfielder just that at £17m Mascher may be too expensive in that role and the effect of going for a cheaper option would be much less than spending less on a more attacking player (which is something you have already agreed with).

[Vermilion]

Thought he had you there Afii...Great come back though with the Sissoko point.. I tend to think also that Mascherano gives us more than Momo as far as passing go's, Momo just went down hill after his eye injury.

[AFII]

The point still stands though that with a midfielder of a different type who cost far less we did beat Barcelona. The player who you argue we need to have any chance against them didn't even get on the pitch when we beat them. I don't think many people are arguing that we shouldn't consider bringing in another defensive midfielder just that at £17m Mascher may be too expensive in that role and the effect of going for a cheaper option would be much less than spending less on a more attacking player (which is something you have already agreed with).

I said, Masch or a player like him. Sissoko and Masch main priority is to win the ball back and destroy the opponents play. We need that type of player when we defend a lot.

[glynner]

Mascherano is undoubtedly a terrific tackler but he is nowhere near a complete midfield player and is incredibly weak going forward. He is, effectively, a sweeper who plays in front of the back four - like Makalele was at Madrid and Chelsea.

That type of player naturally protects your defence and reduces the number of goals conceded but means that half your outfield players are defensive rather than offensive. It is noticeable that Chelsea have improved when going forward since they stopped playing Makalele in that role.

For £17m, whether that is the transfer fee or the whole package including wages, I would expect more than a player who can tackle well. For that sort of money we could get a quality striker, winger or attacking midfielder each of whom would improve us as a team far more than Mascherano does, especially as we have Alonso and Lucas who can also play that role yet still offer a better option going forward.

These stories about him being linked with other clubs are obviously spun by his agents who are looking for another big bonus in the summer.

Fair point.

Is your main issue his transfer value or his role in the team, though?

[AFII]

Thought he had you there Afii...Great come back though with the Sissoko point..

[dww]

I said, Masch or a player like him. Sissoko and Masch main priority is to win the ball back and destroy the opponents play. We need that type of player when we defend a lot.

Fair enough it's a reasonable point in that context. I just don't think that other than being defensive minded Mascher and Momo are all that similar as players. We do need a better blend of players than Lucas, Alonso and Gerrard gives us for the middle - none of them are defensive minded enough. Unless Lucas develops a great deal in that department in the next year.

[AFII]

Fair enough it's a reasonable point in that context. I just don't think that other than being defensive minded Mascher and Momo are all that similar as players. We do need a better blend of players than Lucas, Alonso and Gerrard gives us for the middle - none of them are defensive minded enough. Unless Lucas develops a great deal in that department in the next year.

We can of course change our tactics and play like Barca or Arsenal. Then Gerrard, Alonso and Lucas would be enough.

Rafa is a defensive minded manager and that means that we need a player like Masch or Momo.