Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[Craig_H]

At what point would you lot think rafa should go? If any.

Or should he just stay, regardless of how we do?

[Red_hot]

At what point would you lot think rafa should go? If any.

When he's got rid of the deadwood, has the full backing of the board and the finances that other teams have had to buy the players he wants and we're still losing games like yesterday. Then he should go.

[Robster007]

Because i think football is different to how it was 20 years ago, you dont. That's that.

I asked a question about whether you think we're good enough for 4th place and to beat barnsley, luton &havant comfortably etc...and you didnt answer.

If we're good enough, but not doing so, then questions have to be asked.

If you think we're not good enough to do those things, then that's another issue.

You answered my points with a yawn though DJS. Valid points given the DJS treatment.

"I asked a question about whether you think we're good enough for 4th place and to beat barnsley, luton &havant comfortably "

I personally think that's a strange question, the answer to which is obviously yes. What part do you feel players such as Gerrard and Carragher are playing in our under performing? Rafa does make some unusual decisions, but I don't feel qualified to question his ability as a manager and neither should you.

Football has changed in the past 20 years, you're right. We've got a bunch of overpaid primadonnas questioning their manager? It's ludicrous and they should be shipped out.

People have a go at Kuyt constantly, but he's the consummate professional. Has anyone read his autobiography? No, because he doesn't have one. Maybe he feels playing a few years at the top level in football doesn't qualify him to write one.

I get the feeling if you were a professional footballer DJS, we would be being subjected to your autobiography though.

[Sarb]

When he's got rid of the deadwood, has the full backing of the board and the finances that other teams have had to buy the players he wants and we're still losing games like yesterday. Then he should go.

Three quarters of the deadwood are players he has bought though

[Robster007]

Three quarters of the deadwood are players he has bought though

Enlighten us then. Who has he bought, that make up 3/4 of the deadwood?

[red g]

Three quarters of the deadwood are players he has bought though

but thats only coz he never had a big enough transfer budget or was having to buy 2 or 3 players at a time and not 1.

i dont have a problem with the likes of kuyt/pennant/crouch being reserves just not first teamers

[Craig_H]

I think i have my answers.

Whatever happens, no matter how badly we do, it's never rafa's fault and consequently, he should stay in the job indefinitely, and completely regardless of how badly we perform. Because, apparently, it isnt down to him to get the team performing.

[blacky]

Difficult question blacky. I still think he'd be rotation obsessed, he'd play players out of position, be rigid in his approach, refuse to make subs at half time no matter what happens (barring injury) and be too cautious and willing to change our style to suit inferior opposition.

I dont see how anyone can challenge for the league by doing all those things.

DJS you get a lot of unfair flack on here but your posts and opinions are always detailed and backed up with facts. I'm not a member of the RCDNW brigade but at the same time I don't believe he should be sacked "yet". He frustrates the hell out of me a lot of the time. I don't belive in his rotation policy. I think he is over cautious and too defence minded at times. However I think he has a vision not too disimilar to wengers and this needs time and patience from the fans. I do not "blindly" believe in him but I think in his 4 years in charge while he has not challenged for the title he has shown us enough evidence to suggest that he might. I think it is unfair to judge him until he is on a more level playing field with the top 3. If however DIC come in and rafa is allowed sign his top targets and he still fails to mount a title challenge that lasts the full season then we should be discussing whether he is good enough for the job. I agree with you on Mourinho by the way, I think he is a winner and a great manager. Those people who think he has no "class" fell for the persona he used while managing Chelsea.

[Craig_H]

DJS you get a lot of unfair flack on here but your posts and opinions are always detailed and backed up with facts. I'm not a member of the RCDNW brigade but at the same time I don't believe he should be sacked "yet". He frustrates the hell out of me a lot of the time. I don't belive in his rotation policy. I think he is over cautious and too defence minded at times. However I think he has a vision not too disimilar to wengers and this needs time and patience from the fans. I do not "blindly" believe in him but I think in his 4 years in charge while he has not challenged for the title he has shown us enough evidence to suggest that he might. I think it is unfair to judge him until he is on a more level playing field with the top 3. If however DIC come in and rafa is allowed sign his top targets and he still fails to mount a title challenge that lasts the full season then we should then be discussing whether he is good enough for the job. I agree with you on Mourinho by the way, I think he is a winner and a great manager. Those people who think he has no "class" fell for the persona he used while managing Chelsea.

Appreciate your words mate.

Even allowing for the budget issues, and the notion that he hasnt had enough money to get his 1st choice targets (which i'll go along with), the problem for me, is that he doesnt use what he HAS got at his disposal, properly.

If Rafa was doing all he could with the tools he has, and we werent challenging, then that's fine. He cant do anything about that.

But the problem is, he isnt achieving what the current squad is capable of.

So even with the budget, the first choice signings etc, i still think he'd be muddling his way through bizarre systems, uncomfortable formations and obsessive rotation and consquently, the end result wouldnt be majorly different.

[Robster007]

I think i have my answers.

Whatever happens, no matter how badly we do, it's never rafa's fault and consequently, he should stay in the job indefinitely, and completely regardless of how badly we perform. Because, apparently, it isnt down to him to get the team performing.

You manufacture your own answers DJS. You pervert what other people say and, as Dhavlos said, pigeon hole people as RCDNW brigadiers because we're not necessarily blaming everything on him, or calling for his head at every opportunity.

There would be no Shankly Gates if it was up to people like you.

Your JM agenda stinks.

[Craig_H]

You dont blame ANYTHING on him robster. Not out loud, anyway.

Dhavlos said something similar the other day actually, he acknowledged that he had issues with rafa, but doesnt like to express them. I'm confused as to why people prefer to keep their doubts under wraps.

I have no JM 'agenda', that's a bizarre thing to think. I just want the best possible man to manage LFC and the person who is most likely to guide us to success. I think that's him. Simple as that, no 'agenda' to speak of.

[blacky]

Appreciate your words mate.

Even allowing for the budget issues, and the notion that he hasnt had enough money to get his 1st choice targets (which i'll go along with), the problem for me, is that he doesnt use what he HAS got at his disposal, properly.

If Rafa was doing all he could with the tools he has, and we werent challenging, then that's fine. He cant do anything about that.

But the problem is, he isnt achieving what the current squad is capable of.

So even with the budget, the first choice signings etc, i still think he'd be muddling his way through bizarre systems, uncomfortable formations and obsessive rotation and consquently, the end result wouldnt be majorly different.

I think the big players have let him down this season (torres excluded). I really think he has lost the respect of some of the senior players which does not bode well for the future. Turmoil on the pitch, in the boardroom and in the dressing room spells disaster. Good article by Aldo in the echo saying that having no right hand man is leaving rafa with too great a workload. I feel sorry for him, he is a passionate man and clearly loves the club. The last thing he needs at this moment in time is the fans turning on him aswell.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Do they REALLY think he'll turn it round? Or do they just hope?

That's irrelevant.

That's what they think.

I'm not saying they're wrong because I can't see into the future, but my position is that justifying giving him more time when he's failed so badly in the league thus far, and the signs of it changing aren't there, leads to believing in hope rather than evidence of there being a positive change.

When you are down to hope as your last belief card usually it's because all avenues of evidence of positive change are exhausted.

[Robster007]

You dont blame ANYTHING on him robster. Not out loud, anyway.

Dhavlos said something similar the other day actually, he acknowledged that he had issues with rafa, but doesnt like to express them. I'm confused as to why people prefer to keep their doubts under wraps.

I have no JM 'agenda', that's a bizarre thing to think. I just want the best possible man to manage LFC and the person who is most likely to guide us to success. I think that's him. Simple as that, no 'agenda' to speak of.

I do blame him for certain things DJS. I'd just like to see him have a couple of seasons being able to get the players he really wants. Since he joined us his hands have been tied to a certain extent. Whether it's been lack of funds or the threat of the sack or whatever.

The problem here is that there seems to be no middle ground. You either want Rafa out or are part of the RCDNW brigade.

I'm neither. I just want to back the manager and team. To be honest, I think Gerrard is more of a problem than Rafa. He's a spoilt little brat who seems to be undermining the manager and causing dressing room division.

[red g]

You dont blame ANYTHING on him robster. Not out loud, anyway.

Dhavlos said something similar the other day actually, he acknowledged that he had issues with rafa, but doesnt like to express them. I'm confused as to why people prefer to keep their doubts under wraps.

I have no JM 'agenda', that's a bizarre thing to think. I just want the best possible man to manage LFC and the person who is most likely to guide us to success. I think that's him. Simple as that, no 'agenda' to speak of.

I also blame him for plenty of things.....but all the top managers makes mistakes....look at fergie, dropped ronaldo twice, twice they have lost. the problem is that i just dont see who can come in and do better.

Rafa is building from the youth up and would love him to be given the chance for it to come to fruition. but the mistakes he is making are starting to cost us dear. but he is intelligent and hopefully will learn.