Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[blacky]

That's irrelevant.

That's what they think.

I'm not saying they're wrong because I can't see into the future, but my position is that justifying giving him more time when he's failed so badly in the league thus far, and the signs of it changing aren't there, leads to believing in hope rather than evidence of there being a positive change.

When you are down to hope as your last belief card usually it's because all avenues of evidence of positive change are exhausted.

I think Torres is evidence enough for me. It shows that armed with 20million pounds Rafa can attract world class players to anfield. The problem is the mediocrity in the rest of the squad. If rafa had been given the proper financial support from the beginning we would have had Alves, Simao, Vidic etc in the squad. I believe that if he is given the chance to bring in 2 or 3 more top targets we will challenge for the title. This is not just "hope" but a firm belief and I am certainly no member of the RCDNW brigade.

[Vermilion]

Rafa has Delivered an Fa Cup & Champions league so far, he has been in charge half the time it took Ferguson To win the scum the title which was 7yrs, Without 3 Giants to Overcome too. My Opinion is that because of the on going fiasco at the club, there has been an overreaction.
We need to get this ongoing ownership ****e sorted, get the stadium built, Then give Rafa funds & THEN judge him.

While i'm at it, I blame Moores & Parry for everything, they have ran this club into the ground, Moores is MASSIVELY neglegent for the direction the club has taken, We just stood still while the other top clubs worked hard on their world appeal, worst thing is WE had the draw, the history. We should be leading the way.

[Craig_H]

I do blame him for certain things DJS. I'd just like to see him have a couple of seasons being able to get the players he really wants. Since he joined us his hands have been tied to a certain extent. Whether it's been lack of funds or the threat of the sack or whatever.

The problem here is that there seems to be no middle ground. You either want Rafa out or are part of the RCDNW brigade.

I'm neither. I just want to back the manager and team. To be honest, I think Gerrard is more of a problem than Rafa. He's a spoilt little brat who seems to be undermining the manager and causing dressing room division.

That's the thing though robster, you say you do blame him for some things (without mentioning them), and then you proceed to post a list of 'excuses' for him.

As for middle ground...i dunno. I think people either think he's doing a good job or he isnt. Sure there's other factors, but you if you drop a ball onto a roadside kerb, it either ends up on the pavement or the road.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I think Torres is evidence enough for me. It shows that armed with 20million pounds Rafa can attract world class players to anfield. The problem is the mediocrity in the rest of the squad. If rafa had been given the proper financial support from the beginning we would have had Alves, Simao, Vidic etc in the squad. I believe that if he is given the chance to bring in 2 or 3 more top targets we will challenge for the title. This is not just "hope" but a firm belief and I am certainly no member of the RCDNW brigade.

The money excuse again.

What do you mean by proper financial support?

Is there a ratified mathematical formula where spending a certain amount equals the league title?

It's been proven that you don't need millions upon millions to build a side capable of competing for the league. The current Arsenal side is evidence of this.

Rafa's had plenty of money to spend since he's arrived, and by and large he's bought good players. Some have cost £20m, others have cost £6m like Agger.

Who assembled that medicore squad? And I don't think they are.

In the end the results and performances haven't improved.

I just wonder how many will turn if Inter put us out? I suspect the majority.

[Craig_H]

That's irrelevant.

That's what they think.

I'm not saying they're wrong because I can't see into the future, but my position is that justifying giving him more time when he's failed so badly in the league thus far, and the signs of it changing aren't there, leads to believing in hope rather than evidence of there being a positive change.

When you are down to hope as your last belief card usually it's because all avenues of evidence of positive change are exhausted.

What i mean is, do they honestly think rafa will turn it around, or is it just what they WANT to think?

Hand on their heart, with what they're seeing now, do they honestly think rafa will make us title challengers?

[Craig_H]

I also blame him for plenty of things.....but all the top managers makes mistakes....look at fergie, dropped ronaldo twice, twice they have lost. the problem is that i just dont see who can come in and do better.

Rafa is building from the youth up and would love him to be given the chance for it to come to fruition. but the mistakes he is making are starting to cost us dear. but he is intelligent and hopefully will learn.

He hasnt learnt in nearly four years. I dont think it's about intelligence, i think he's just too stubborn.

[Craig_H]

I think Torres is evidence enough for me. It shows that armed with 20million pounds Rafa can attract world class players to anfield. The problem is the mediocrity in the rest of the squad. If rafa had been given the proper financial support from the beginning we would have had Alves, Simao, Vidic etc in the squad. I believe that if he is given the chance to bring in 2 or 3 more top targets we will challenge for the title. This is not just "hope" but a firm belief and I am certainly no member of the RCDNW brigade.

Even if we had those players, Vidic would probably be playing right back, Alves left back and simao in a holding role.

He doesnt use the players he's got properly, so why would he use other players properly?

[Tatterdemalion]

What i mean is, do they honestly think rafa will turn it around, or is it just what they WANT to think?

Hand on their heart, with what they're seeing now, do they honestly think rafa will make us title challengers?

I think that is a good point. I suppose I want him to turn it around more than I believe he will turn it around (right now). But having said that, I think he has more chance of turning it around in a certain period of time (say 3 years) than would another, new manager.

[steveheighwayrobbery]

What i mean is, do they honestly think rafa will turn it around, or is it just what they WANT to think?

Hand on their heart, with what they're seeing now, do they honestly think rafa will make us title challengers?

I am a they, so yes. Had he been able top buy the players he wanted rather than those he could afford you'd have avves and the simao on the wings vidic and agger as cbs possibly eto and torres in attack with aguero and walcott to repalce them ......................

[Craig_H]

I am a they, so yes. Had he been able top buy the players he wanted rather than those he could afford you'd have avves and the simao on the wings vidic and agger as cbs possibly eto and torres in attack with aguero and walcott to repalce them ......................

So the players he bought arent good enough to finish 4th comfortably?

Or beat Barnsley?

As if. More excuses about money.

[steveheighwayrobbery]

So the players he bought arent good enough to finish 4th comfortably?

Or beat Barnsley?

As if. More excuses about money.

and had the chances gone in?

[Craig_H]

and had the chances gone in?

But the chances DIDNT go in. And they HAVENT been.

What use is 'if' ?

If this, if that. You cant live on 'ifs' you live on results.

By your logic, i could say 'well if Billy Davies had taken Derby to 5th place, he wouldnt have been sacked'...

Ifs mean nothing, results define everything.

[steveheighwayrobbery]

But the chances DIDNT go in. And they HAVENT been.

What use is 'if' ?

If this, if that. You cant live on 'ifs' you live on results.

By your logic, i could say 'well if Billy Davies had taken Derby to 5th place, he wouldnt have been sacked'...

Ifs mean nothing, results define everything.

and if one goal didn't go in in a certain fa cup match for the scum were would ferguson be now? Rafa can't knock them in for the team?

[Craig_H]

and if one goal didn't go in in a certain fa cup match for the scum were would ferguson be now?

Oh my sweet lord.

Serious case of missing the point here fella.

[blacky]

The money excuse again.

What do you mean by proper financial support?

Is there a ratified mathematical formula where spending a certain amount equals the league title?

It's been proven that you don't need millions upon millions to build a side capable of competing for the league. The current Arsenal side is evidence of this.

Rafa's had plenty of money to spend since he's arrived, and by and large he's bought good players. Some have cost £20m, others have cost £6m like Agger.

Who assembled that medicore squad? And I don't think they are.

In the end the results and performances haven't improved.

I just wonder how many will turn if Inter put us out? I suspect the majority.

I wasn't making excuses CMS. We finished 3rd the last 2 seasons behind Chelsea and United both teams that can spend 20-30 millions on world class players. We spent that amount for the very first time this season and look at the impact Torres has had. I think we need 2 or 3 more players like that to have any chance of challenging for the title. Thats a fact not an excuse. Wenger is an exception to the rule, he is reaping the benefits of Liam Brady'd youth setup at Arsenal and an awful lot of money was spent on that project over the years.