Do we expect too much??

[El Jefecito]

No idea but I think you have to accept that the likes of Eboue, Clichy, Toure, Fabregas etc have developed a great deal under Wenger and were bought by Wenger at a time when they had more potential than actual ability and for a fraction of the value we have paid for some squad members. The likes of Eboue and Toure have come through clubs who appear to be run as effective feeder teams for Arsenal so Wenger deserves credit for picking them early and then developing them to top PL standard.

Reasonably you could add the idea that top quality gambles on youth like Walcott has allowed them in general to move forward more this season than our similar initial outlay on Pennant say.

I tend to agree that we needed more squad members of better quality or at least different style than some would like to admit when Rafa arrived (it is easy to attack signings with hindsight and hypothetical alternatives). I still think the balance of the way we have done our business has been slightly too much towards squad players and not enough really top potential. For example could the £3m spent on Leto have been put to better use added to the Benayoun money for one player (although he may become a solid player and we haven't seen much yet, but I have seen no signs and heard no talk that he is a wonderkid type signing)?

I guess it is all pretty unknowable and if I had to back anyones judgement on the matter it would be Rafa's (it would be interesting to hear Mourinho or Fergie's honest thoughts too).

Eboue is crap, Toure was the finished article when he was signed. That leaves Clichy and Fabregas. Not as good a record as Wegner is given credit for.

Agree that the focus has been on nthe squad, but TBH given the quality of the players we had, I don't think Rafa had a choice.

Consider that Plessis, Insua and Nemeth made it. We are definitely in a position to buy one world class player per year. If we promote those three we only need a RW and world class striker. Modric + Etoo/Villa

[pezzzer]

fegie boght and sold many players before the filth won anything,and that took 5 years.

on the wole rafa has bought and sold squad players but now the spine is there and he is adding the quality that fergie/abromovitch/wenger have the luxury to do.

[einar]

Am I the only one worried that Parry has been in the past and wants to in the future decide what a player is worth and that could be a big reason why we have not gotten Rafas first choices? And that is the reason for their falling out?

[AFII]

Toure wasn't the finished article. Wenger started him as a midfielder, attacking midfielder if I remember things right but when Arsenal got injury problems Wenger used him as a central defender and he has stayed there since then.

[Shaggy]

Toure wasn't the finished article. Wenger started him as a midfielder, attacking midfielder if I remember things right but when Arsenal got injury problems Wenger used him as a central defender and he has stayed there since then.

That's correct. Toure played on both the right and left wings to begin with. I remember being surprised when he was first used as a centre-back.

[Kopite_Colin]

Me too. I was amazed when I saw him at CB.

[rage]

by the intensity of the debate i'm of the opinion that no one here believes we're over ambitious

[Johnny]

We do expect too much.

[Red_Polo]

I think the fact some people were calling for Rafa's head earlier this season shows some people expect too much. We're competing with teams who are ultimately every bit as good if not better in terms of spending power, amount of time their managers have had to mould the club into their own shape, and recent league success.

When people talk about comparing our net spend with the Mancs, they forget that even if the figures are spot on, the Mancs have been able to attract better players by virtue of more recent league success and they have also been able to splash vast sums on single players to an extent we just haven't. Thankfully, that's a gap we've slowly been closing given our European record and a decent transfer policy.

Everybody has different expectations, but I do feel in general the modern fan expects too much too soon. Rafa's brought us some great success and is building something greater still, that should be enough. Nobody said winning the league would be plain sailing. People too often confuse what they want to happen with what they should expect. Cheeseburger to go please, NOW!

[barnes10]

players like morientes, kewell, kuyt, bellamy (17 goals in prem at blackburn). we percieved as top quality. hindsight is a wonderful thing tho isnt it.

at least we haven't lost a lot of money on them.

DJS. would you extend the contracts of the likes of diao, cheyrou, traore, biscan, smicer et al and le tallec when they were on far too much money and not going to play? Cos thats what we'd have had to do if we didnt refurbish the squad. that plus the risk of injury makes it clear why rafa has rebuild the squad rather than just buying big.

and for the record. 'big' players can't contribute half as much if they aren't supported by decent enough quality. watch drogba for the ivory coast as a prime example.

rebuilding the squad and working on the CL was the right set of priorities. therefore yes we expect too much if we arent happy with that. rafa has the right plan and i trust him far more than GH to take the final step. i trust him far more than most managers out there frankly which shows how we cant lose him.

[dww]

To be fair there has to have been a chance that any of the above knowing that they were bound to go to a much smaller team and that we were going to have to give them something of a run would have accepted smaller contracts.

Also in terms of buying I think the point being made is that Pennant at say £7m is not enough of an improvement and we could have given say Guthrie a chance. Saving the £7m for a bigger player.

Having said all that people said much the same about Mellor and that didn't work out great consistently when he was given a chance and he has hardly set the world alight elsewhere. I don't think anyone doubts that Rafa had to rebuild the squad but it is the nature of some of the gambles he has taken that is in question.

It has to be said though that he made good money back on Bellamy and we did pretty well financially out of a lot of our sales of his players and everyone would have taken the Morientes gamble in my opinion.

[Craig_H]

I think the fact some people were calling for Rafa's head earlier this season shows some people expect too much. We're competing with teams who are ultimately every bit as good if not better in terms of spending power, amount of time their managers have had to mould the club into their own shape, and recent league success.

When people talk about comparing our net spend with the Mancs, they forget that even if the figures are spot on, the Mancs have been able to attract better players by virtue of more recent league success and they have also been able to splash vast sums on single players to an extent we just haven't. Thankfully, that's a gap we've slowly been closing given our European record and a decent transfer policy.

Everybody has different expectations, but I do feel in general the modern fan expects too much too soon. Rafa's brought us some great success and is building something greater still, that should be enough. Nobody said winning the league would be plain sailing. People too often confuse what they want to happen with what they should expect. Cheeseburger to go please, NOW!

So, at the start of this season, you werent expecting a title challenge?

[Craig_H]

Also in terms of buying I think the point being made is that Pennant at say £7m is not enough of an improvement and we could have given say Guthrie a chance. Saving the £7m for a bigger player.

Precisely. Pennant, Kuyt and Leto = £20m.

Who would people prefer to have, those three or another Torres?

No brainer.

[Guest]

Precisely. Pennant, Kuyt and Leto = £20m.

Who would people prefer to have, those three or another Torres?

No brainer.

Then we would have strengthened only one position.

[Joe King]

I think a title contention is too soon for us. We clearly don't have the quality all over the pitch. We still miss players that would bring a lot more attacking flair to the game and we badly missed Agger this season. He is one who builds from the back and is Hansen-esque (not to put too much pressure on the lad)

At this moment, we can compete for the Champions League. Its 15 games throughout the season and it can also bring in up to five times the revenue compared to winning the title according to this football professor on the radio. So financially it makes sense at this moment in time. If we can win the Champions League, it would strengthen our position in the market and soon we could lure more better quality of players from the world.