If we could have turned 6 of 13 draws into wins...

[Darkon]

I believe that there was an article in either the daily post or the echo about rotation this season a few months ago, showing that fergie rotates a bit more than rafa, but can't remember when its from... anyone know?

[Scratch]

Still waiting for DJS to point out these matches with 5/6/7/8 changes from the previous match. Just so we can see what context these matches fell into. Like i said, changing a side dramitically for a CC match, or before a crucial CL match etc, then changing it back again afterwards...well, that's two matches straight away with heavy rotation, but in the context of the season and the importance of the games, it's all relative.

What i'd like to see is these numerous examples that he recalls of 7/8 changes from premiership match to premiership match.

[Craig_H]

Still waiting for DJS to point out these matches with 5/6/7/8 changes from the previous match. Just so we can see what context these matches fell into. Like i said, changing a side dramitically for a CC match, or before a crucial CL match etc, then changing it back again afterwards...well, that's two matches straight away with heavy rotation, but in the context of the season and the importance of the games, it's all relative.

What i'd like to see is these numerous examples that he recalls of 7/8 changes from premiership match to premiership match.

Sorry that i didnt make diary entries each time it happened...

I recall several games however, where the commentator made reference to 6, 7 or even sometimes 8 changes.

I must be lying though.

[dww]

The point is though that you can't expect people to accept an argument based on TV punditry when they have a perfectly valid reason why they would choose to discount it in certain situations unless you can show those circumstances didn't apply. If you can't remember the circumstances then the evidence you present doesn't really have a lot of credibility.

[carlton]

There's nothing to be gained by being fresher near the end of the season, if you're out of the title race by then. What's the use of having fresh players when you've been out of the race for 4 months?

And if we dont have the players to carry out the sort of rotation that Rafa persists with, then he shouldnt bloody persist with it.

It's like not having a vehicle, and trying to run a minicab service

I think I made that point that it was our form over the holiday period that ruined the season. The figures dont lie either 7 pts dropped out of the last 39 obviously points to being a side that finishes well-its the middle period that needs improvement as well as getting off to a good start. Who's suggesting there anything to be gained out having fresh players when the you are out of the title race? I also said that Rafa needs to play his strongest as often as possible as our current squad is not up to it.

Is it me mis-interpreting your posts or are you always in constant attack mode on this site?

[Scratch]

Sorry that i didnt make diary entries each time it happened...

I recall several games however, where the commentator made reference to 6, 7 or even sometimes 8 changes.

I must be lying though.

Never said you were lying so no need to get all definsive, merely want to know the context of these matches. Was it back to back premiership matches?

You're constantly using this 5/6/7/8 stat as a reason to attack Rafa over rotation, so i think i'm entitled to know the circumstances surrounding the matches, otherwise your argument feels a little empty.

[Craig_H]

The point is though that you can't expect people to accept an argument based on TV punditry when they have a perfectly valid reason why they would choose to discount it in certain situations unless you can show those circumstances didn't apply. If you can't remember the circumstances then the evidence you present doesn't really have a lot of credibility.

It's not TV punditry, it's a statement of fact made a commentator, using his 'fact sheet'. Would people dispute who was playing in goal, when they hear the commentator saying it?

I dont really care about 'e-credibility' (snigger) and i'm fully aware that people wont believe the facts which negate their points.

[Darkon]

It's not TV punditry, it's a statement of fact made a commentator, using his 'fact sheet'. Would people dispute who was playing in goal, when they hear the commentator saying it?

I dont really care about 'e-credibility' (snigger) and i'm fully aware that people wont believe the facts which negate their points.

If you are so sure, you could go through each line-up for the season and prove people wrong... not least that is was for important game, and not a fourth round tie in th CC...

Anywho, there are plenty of stats showing rafa does not rotate more than any other top manager ( see what I posted on the last page)... It even shows that fergie rotates more "heavily" at times than rafa does...

[dww]

The point is that for those numbers to mean anything the context of the previous match has to be taken into account. I'm sure you would agree that 7/8 changes between a league cup and premier league match is more than justifiable.

Also you claim this has happened frequently which is of itself a subjective view also adds to the fact that really what you use as evidence is best treated as hearsay really. If you had like for like numbers rather than effectively saying 'i heard someone say once' it would be more powerful as an argument.

I'm not necessarily against your argument I just think your evidence is flimsy and that your talking down to those who disagree with you makes me suspect that you on some level know this too.

[Craig_H]

If you are so sure, you could go through each line-up for the season and prove people wrong... not least that is was for important game, and not a fourth round tie in th CC...

Anywho, there are plenty of stats showing rafa does not rotate more than any other top manager ( see what I posted on the last page)... It even shows that fergie rotates more "heavily" at times than rafa does...

Being 'so sure' is quite different to caring whether people believe it or not.

I'm not going through 50 odd games to prove it

[Craig_H]

The point is that for those numbers to mean anything the context of the previous match has to be taken into account. I'm sure you would agree that 7/8 changes between a league cup and premier league match is more than justifiable.

Also you claim this has happened frequently which is of itself a subjective view also adds to the fact that really what you use as evidence is best treated as hearsay really. If you had like for like numbers rather than effectively saying 'i heard someone say once' it would be more powerful as an argument.
I'm not necessarily against your argument I just think your evidence is flimsy and that your talking down to those who disagree with you makes me suspect that you on some level know this too.

Yes, because i heard it down the pub once... :yawn:

[Darkon]

Being 'so sure' is quite different to caring whether people believe it or not.

I'm not going through 50 odd games to prove it

You however still ignore all the stats I have posted, that otherwise prove that rafa rotates no more than fergie or mourinho did last season, and that he made fewer large changes to his team as well...

[Craig_H]

You however still ignore all the stats I have posted, that otherwise prove that rafa rotates no more than fergie or mourinho did last season, and that he made fewer large changes to his team as well...

Mate, he may make no more changes overall, but he might well balance out a 6-change game with a 1-change game.

Unfortunately though, the games where he's changed excessively still cost us points.

[The Birdman]

You're flogging a dead horse here DJS unless you back up your claims a bit with some facts or stats.
No-one is disputing that Rafa has made certain amount of changes from game to game but if it's Champions Lge qualifier followed by league game followed by Carling cup for example then the changes are justifiable.
I'd love to see if you can find instances where Rafa has made more than 6 changes each game in 3 consecutive league games

[Scratch]

Yes, because i heard it down the pub once... :yawn:

Well, you've heard it somewhere. So have I, and i'll happily admit it. I just recall it being being due to CC matches. And i think it was 9 changes as well....ah yes, also the PL match against Arsenal, that was sandwhiched in between...um, what was it...oh that's right, 2 QF ties in the CL against Arsenal. Our rotated side got a vlauable point away at the Emirates, and we won the CL matches.

But you seem to think it was a regular occurance, so i'm asking for two...heck, just one instance where we've gone straight from one PL match to another and made all these changes that you keep harping on about. I mean, it's happened so many times, even you must be able to recall one event that might make me question Rafa's rotation policy.