If we could have turned 6 of 13 draws into wins...

[lfc1394]

I think I made that point that it was our form over the holiday period that ruined the season. The figures dont lie either 7 pts dropped out of the last 39 obviously points to being a side that finishes well-its the middle period that needs improvement as well as getting off to a good start. Who's suggesting there anything to be gained out having fresh players when the you are out of the title race? I also said that Rafa needs to play his strongest as often as possible as our current squad is not up to it.

Is it me mis-interpreting your posts or are you always in constant attack mode on this site?

In the previous 2 seasons we were good in the middle period and end of the season, but rubbish at the beginning.

I clearly remember how ‘we had to get a good start’ this season. 14 games unbeaten, was a good start I’d say.

But we ****ed up in the middle.

The problem we have is it’s not about good start, good middle or good finish. It’s about being good the whole time.

The mancs do one thing better than most, and that’s the way they react to defeat. I think we have shown that too in the way we have reacted to losing to the mancs and to chelski in the CL. We just can’t offered to loose 3 or draw 6 etc in a row or in close succession.

[Craig_H]

We started fecking up when the CL group stages started...coincidentally, this is when Rafa started pissing about with his team selection.

[Scratch]

We started fecking up when the CL group stages started...coincidentally, this is when Rafa started pissing about with his team selection.

Aye, 8 changes a match or something like that, wasn't it?

[calvoboy]

Looking at two of our most disappointing results of the year - losing to Reading away and drawing 0-0 with Birmingham at home - the first team for each game is below, along with the squad for the game that immediately preceded it.

I haven't got time to go through the other disappointing results, but my reading of the games below is that it was nothing to do with rotation in terms of numbers. We made 4 changes for the Reading game, one of which was forced through injury, and one of which undeniably strengthened the team (Mascher in for Lucas). For the Birmingham game we made just two changes.

For Reading the issue was a lack of cover at the back which forced us to play the inexperienced Hobbs. We were also very unlucky in that game if I remember correctly. They scored three goals out of their three chances, while we missed a host of chances and Torres had a rare off-night before Rafa threw in the towel and took him off.

For the Birmingham game we should have played Torres from the start instead of Voronin, but rotation per se wasn't to blame for that result either.

Team vs Bolton at home 2/12, compared to vs Reading away 8/12


Reina Reina
Riise Riise
Carragher Carragher
Hyppia Hobbs
Arbeloa Arbeloa
Kewell Voronin
Gerrard Gerrard
Lucas Mascherano
Benayoun Sissoko
Crouch Crouch
Torres Torres

4 changes, one forced through injury (Hobbs in for Hyppia), and I wouldn't say swapping Mascherano for Lucas should have particularly weakened the side.

Team vs Porto at home 18/9, compared to vs Birmingham at home 22/9

Reina Reina
Arbeloa Arbeloa
Carragher Carragher
Hyppia Hyppia
Finnan Riise
Babel Babel
Gerrard Gerrard
Mascherano Mascherano
Pennant Pennant
Kuyt Kuyt
Torres Voronin

2 changes. Not particularly excessive.

[lfc1394]

We started fecking up when the CL group stages started...coincidentally, this is when Rafa started pissing about with his team selection.

I would add it was when Agger and Alonso got injured too.

Thing is while I agree with you in terms of he has rotated too much for the sake of rotation. I don't think it's the only reason we haven't mounted a serious title challenge.

You’ve been asked to give some examples of over rotation. Well I can remember some specific line up’s that made me cringe. Notably Crouch and Voronin on the wings.
As Rafa has said, he has clearly made some mistakes this season, and he can’t obviously discuss them with everyone. He also will make more mistakes, but hopefully, we have finally got a system that he likes and the players like. He can then change personnel with limited disruption. As an example, putting beni on instead of babel isn’t going to seriously harm our chance of winning a game, like wise Lucas for Alonso. But when it’s changes for the sake of keeping Momo happy for example when he is clearly below par, then I have a problem with that.

[Skillz]

I've always said rotation in itself, and done sensibly, is a good thing.

But when you change 5+ players per game, that's absurdly idiotic and hampers your chances considerably.

You rightly say, the wrong personnel are often used, and sometimes in the wrong (uncomfortable and unnatural) positions.

This stops - or Rafa will NEVER win the PL.

Since we have been using the 4-2-3-1 formation we have never rotated more IMO. 8-9 changes per game but we still got good results, bar the Manc game

[Craig_H]

Since we have been using the 4-2-3-1 formation we have never rotated more IMO. 8-9 changes per game but we still got good results, bar the Manc game

That's also when we only had the CL left to play for.

The acid test will be next season, when i'm sure the obsessive rotating will be with us once more.

[Skillz]

I would add it was when Agger and Alonso got injured too.

Don't forget PAKO

[Skillz]

That's also when we only had the CL left to play for.

The acid test will be next season, when i'm sure the obsessive rotating will be with us once more.

So what. We still got good results.

[Guest]

Who removed the tags to this thread.

[Craig_H]

So what. We still got good results.

Oh great, so a CL run is the extent of our ambition?

[Skillz]

Oh great, so a CL run is the extent of our ambition?

Hang on, i said good results since we adopted the 4231. That includes PL and CL during which, at times, we have changed 8-9 players a game.

So my ambition is to compete in all competitions.

[Craig_H]

Hang on, i said good results since we adopted the 4231. That includes PL and CL during which, at times, we have changed 8-9 players a game.

So my ambition is to compete in all competitions.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. But the majority of the time we've played 4231, we've only had the CL to play for - and we havent rotated much.

Wait til we're (allegedly) in the title race again (usually August to November times) and see what happens then. We'll rotate daftly, drop stupid points and be out of the race before christmas...

[Darkon]

Don't forget PAKO

He's injured??

[Darkon]

Apologies for the misunderstanding. But the majority of the time we've played 4231, we've only had the CL to play for - and we havent rotated much.

Wait til we're (allegedly) in the title race again (usually August to November times) and see what happens then. We'll rotate daftly, drop stupid points and be out of the race before christmas...

you still have to show us 1 time, just 1, where rafa has made the amount of changes between important games... if you have an argument that is...