Kuyt to make the difference?

[Shaggy]

Didn't you read his quote?!?!

[FatTony]

Didn't you read his quote?!?!

No

Not sure how to take those quotes, I'm sure he'd be far happier as a striker, but then to say that could be taken as a little dig at Rafa.

[Neil Young]

Best close this forum then!

You could be on to something.

[Neil Young]

This "like their opinion is likely to be superior to Rafa's" is an extremely lame argument. Nobody is professing their knowledge to be greater than Rafa's - people are merely expressing their opinion. On a discussion forum.

Since that's my argument then please allow me to respond...

My point is that posts that are rooted in "I don't know what Rafa sees in xxxx" or "why does Rafa pick xxxx, he looks crap to me" can go either of two ways. Either it becomes an attempt to understand Rafa's thinking, what Rafa might see in training (to which we aren't privy) or in matches (to which we are), what "his idea" might be. Or it starts to move along the line of "Rafa's lost the plot" or "Rafa would rather play xxxx because he works hard rather than yyyy because he scores goals" and that to my mind is a waste of time.

I realise it doesn't seem like that to all and I have no wish to discourage people posting whatever they want. Equally however I don't see any reason why I can't point out the inadequacies of such discussions. We get understandably irritated about the ignorance of professional pundits and the emptiness of their "analysis" yet somehow we are meant to take our own more seriously.

Also I'm not saying Rafa necessarily gets it right all the time - he clearly doesn't. However I think it's safe to assume he gets it right more often than any of us would if we didn't have the luxury of never having our suggestions tested and not having to deal with the real world (in terms of LFC of course ).

I've said it before that there are bound to be some on here who know more about football than most of us and we can all make up our minds about who they are. And I don't think there's any harm in the rest of us (indeed arguably all of us) taking our opinions about football in general a little less seriously. Of course we care about LFC and I think there are things we can rightly be very loud about - the stewardship of the club for instance - but I do think we lack a lot of knowledge about the intricacies of professional football.

As for football being a game, ultimately what matters is whether Liverpool win, lose or draw and that is a matter of fact not a matter for debate. Even then it doesn't matter that much compared to a lot of other things in the world and in our everyday lives.

No offence like...

[Shaggy]

There isn't one person on this forum who has a "great knowledge of the intricacies of professional football" - if any of us did we'd be coaches or scouts. None of us have ever had anything to do with professional football. We are outsiders.

However it's obvious that some have played a lot of football while others have only ever played it on their console. Professional football is obviously very different - tactically - to the Sunday or Saturday football that many of us have played.

Besides - this "knowledge" talk is a bit misleading. There's seldom a right or wrong answer in football - just opinions. I find a lot of football forums to be a load of blokes flexing their muscles, so to speak......"I KNOW MORE ABOUT FOOTBALL THAN YOU DO RAH RAH RAH!"....all trying to outdo each other.

Which is bollocks. The only knowledge anyone can have is of players around the world - like AFII - but that is very different from 'knowing' about the game itself...which is mainly subjective.

[Shaggy]

I realise it doesn't seem like that to all and I have no wish to discourage people posting whatever they want. Equally however I don't see any reason why I can't point out the inadequacies of such discussions. We get understandably irritated about the ignorance of professional pundits and the emptiness of their "analysis" yet somehow we are meant to take our own more seriously.

But you only ever see fit to "point out the inadequacies of such discussions" when it's a discussion that is predominantly criticising one of your favourite players - like Kuyt.

Which I suppose is only natural.

[Neil Young]

There isn't one person on this forum who has a "great knowledge of the intricacies of professional football" - if any of us did we'd be coaches or scouts. None of us have ever had anything to do with professional football. We are outsiders.

However it's obvious that some have played a lot of football while others have only ever played it on their console. Professional football is obviously very different - tactically - to the Sunday or Saturday football that many of us have played.

Besides - this "knowledge" talk is a bit misleading. There's seldom a right or wrong answer in football - just opinions. I find a lot of football forums to be a load of blokes flexing their muscles, so to speak......"I KNOW MORE ABOUT FOOTBALL THAN YOU DO RAH RAH RAH!"....all trying to outdo each other.

Which is bollocks. The only knowledge anyone can have is of players around the world - like AFII - but that is very different from 'knowing' about the game itself...which is mainly subjective.

Oh I don't disagree with anything you say there. I'm not really interested in people's opinions, I'm more interested in their experiences, what lies behind an opinion, that's all. And since, as you say, (almost) everyone on here has no knowledge of professional football then the best we can hope for is to sort out the little pieces of insight we might stumble upon from the huge amount of toss we all talk.

[Shaggy]

Oh I don't disagree with anything you say there. I'm not really interested in people's opinions, I'm more interested in their experiences, what lies behind an opinion, that's all. And since, as you say, (almost) everyone on here has no knowledge of professional football then the best we can hope for is to sort out the little pieces of insight we might stumble upon from the huge amount of toss we all talk.

If there's anyone on here who's had experience of professional football then who is it? As far as I know there isn't one contributor who is talking from experience.

Some may flower their posts with lots of nice words and lots of reasonable caveats, but it doesn't mean they have any real experience.

[Neil Young]

But you only ever see fit to "point out the inadequacies of such discussions" when it's a discussion that is predominantly criticising one of your favourite players - like Kuyt.

Which I suppose is only natural.

Do you want me to repeat it in every thread then?

[Shaggy]

I'm not really interested in people's opinions, I'm more interested in their experiences, what lies behind an opinion, that's all.

One would have to ask, therefore, what on earth are you doing on a football forum?

[Neil Young]

If there's anyone on here who's had experience of professional football then who is it? As far as I know there isn't one contributor who is talking from experience.

Some may flower their posts with lots of nice words and lots of reasonable caveats, but it doesn't mean they have any real experience.

I don't know. I put it in because it seems pointless to be too categorical about it and there's always a chance someone really does know something about it. In fact I added that word because I thought it peripheral to the main issue - most (and probably all) of us don't know anything much.

Having said that I certainly find some posters reasonably consistently see further than I do. I doubt it's because they have any experience of professional football though.

[Neil Young]

One would have to ask, therefore, what on earth are you doing on a football forum?

It's not coincidental I post a lot less in the footie forums than the general ones.

[bobbyfallon]

There isn't one person on this forum who has a "great knowledge of the intricacies of professional football" - if any of us did we'd be coaches or scouts. None of us have ever had anything to do with professional football. We are outsiders.

However it's obvious that some have played a lot of football while others have only ever played it on their console. Professional football is obviously very different - tactically - to the Sunday or Saturday football that many of us have played.

Besides - this "knowledge" talk is a bit misleading. There's seldom a right or wrong answer in football - just opinions. I find a lot of football forums to be a load of blokes flexing their muscles, so to speak......"I KNOW MORE ABOUT FOOTBALL THAN YOU DO RAH RAH RAH!"....all trying to outdo each other.

Which is bollocks. The only knowledge anyone can have is of players around the world - like AFII - but that is very different from 'knowing' about the game itself...which is mainly subjective.

great post


sure managers make mistakes, the player doesnt like the weather cant adapt to the pace etc. though does not make the player any better or worse just maybe not tailored to the english game... this can be seen as a managers failure

but....without a shadow of a doubt they know more than any of us on here, on any fans forum. top coaches managers scouts see things they are trained to see.

we perceive a good player cos he has pace to burn - they see pace, wasteful in front of goal, poor positional sense, cant tackle, wont track back, wrong attitude in training, wont fit certain systems etc..

we pay managers scouts coaches for their expertise....

as you say shaggy all we have are opinions be it right or wrong but in no way would anyone involved within lfc give two ****s about our uneducated views

i find the more i drink watching football the more i seem to know about it and like to stress my opinion ..

and shaggy in fairness i know considerably more about football than yaaaw

[rage]

I get Pete (bobthecharmer) cos I know him of old I just don't get the rest of them, Rage etc.

yr entitled to your opinion, as i am to mine.

in regards to kuyt as a striker he's awful. i did warm to him on the right of a 4231 later in the season but given the choice i'd only ever have him as a squad filler at best.

[Chiccada]

I think Kuyt could be our answer to old show pony bollocks at the scum next season. This season has been a learning zone for him and next year we'll see the very best of him. I'd be surprised if he doesn't score at least 20 goals in the league alone. Throw in some penalties and who knows he could be challenging Torres.

Never in the history of football has a guy so ugly worked so hard. He deserves everything he gets in life, be it one up the arse or one in the net so to speak.

I'm having money on him as top scorer at the euro's. He'll surprise a few.

Kuyt to be crowned Queen Kuyt this time next year.

Last nights final proved that ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING is possible in life

Nice to see a pending marraige hasnt totally voided you of a sense of humor.

Belately, it was good to meet you at the CL Semi 1st leg meet in the Hops bar.