The Rafa Thread

[rage]

how could we have acted faster under barry? it is wrong for rafa to talk about asking faster in this instance. perhaps we should have acted quieter rather than faster.

villa always wanted what they did for barry and refused to budge, acting faster would only have been of use here if another team were in for him. this was not the case.

totally wrong though that our ceo and manager are in open conflict with each other

[cled the red]

I think they are miles better than us in pace and skill. Even the stats say so.

Premiership stats 2008/09

Goals conceded:- Liverpool 0, Man Utd 1.

So no, the stats don't say so!!!

[Skillz]

our football today is no different than under houllier.

That's as far as I got, sorry your clueless IMO.

[dww]

Brown was mistake prone and used his pace to get him out of trouble in his younger days as a CB. His stint there also coincided with a United defense that cost them a number of games. He has matured into a much better player but to use his youthful form as a defense is misguided in my opinion.

I would also argue his short passing and control are much worse than Arbeloas.

[lfc1394]

Rafa didn't try for Evra actually, Evra himself said on Sky that the Liverpool rumours were totally false when he was asked about it although he admitted that Houllier was interested when he was quite young so why did you just make that up?

Rafa took over a 4th place team, we finished 4th last year. Period.

And everyone thought Evra was **** in his first season and how 'lucky' we were we didn't get him.

Please show an example of where a team has gone from 4th to 1st thanks.

[dww]

how could we have acted faster under barry? it is wrong for rafa to talk about asking faster in this instance. perhaps we should have acted quieter rather than faster.

villa always wanted what they did for barry and refused to budge, acting faster would only have been of use here if another team were in for him. this was not the case.

totally wrong though that our ceo and manager are in open conflict with each other

I was more thinking about the Evra and Vidic transfers as a possible example. Although United may have been interested already and by all accounts, even if it looks like a blessing in disguise, the Malouda deal last year.

We could have made the Barry decision quicker though for sure which might have allowed us to explore other players. In particular the farce when we 'agreed a deal 15minutes late' then decided not to go ahead with the deal when the deadline was removed. I actually think the speed thing refers to a degree to the sale of Alonso - even if we got less than Barry costs I think earlier in the window we could have afforded to make the change to the squad Rafa wanted.

[Roboklopp]

You mean Vidic and Evra costing multi millions?

No actually I don't. I mean the great attacking players to which you allude. Off the top of my head...

Horse £17m
Ronnie £12m
Rooney £27m
Nancy £17m
Saha £13m
Veron £28m (Has Rafa made such a hig-profile trnasfer **** up?)

& Possibly Tevez & Berbatov.

Then there's the likes of

Hargeaves, Anderson & Carrick- all of whom cost high teens of millions.

Defence-wise, Rafa wanted Vidic too & has brought us in Skrtel & Agger fo similarly low fees & who also look excellent.

The big difference is Ferdinand in terms of their progression in defence & look how much he cost -£28m FFS. Agger is a ball-playing CB & we were much more stifled in our play as a result of his injuries last season (also Xabi's I believe, but that's a different point).

With your one-liners, selective arguments, sensationalism & deliberate ignoring of & misrepresentation of facts, you're like a Sun journalist. Maybe you should ask your mate Bascomeb for a job as teaboy.

[rage]

That's as far as I got, sorry your clueless IMO.

the league table doesn't lie or is that clueless too. strange name for a supporter of a team where skill is valued at the bottom of the list of necessary attributes i'm thinking

[Exiled_red]

He might well have done but look at his back four? Evra, Brown, Ferdinand and Vidic cost a combined £42m but the best in the league by a mile. Take away Ferdinand and it's peanuts.

Fergie rarely makes mistakes in midfield and attack too.... that's why you can name his failures so easily - they are only a handful.

Our first choice back four cost half of that, in fact all the defenders in our squad cost less than that. The way I see it all transfers are a gamble, but the more money you have to spend the less risk there is associated. Ferdinand, Rooney etc were proven Premiership players that he paid top money ~£30m for 4 and 5 years ago we've spent ~2/3 on a top player even these years later

It has nothing to do with Rafa and is under a totally different management.

Rafa has had a huge involvement in the youth players, work with coaches and bringing in players

Totally unacceptable that in 4 years he hasn't managed to buy a decent winger.

Finances mean instead of spending £15m on likes of Simao or Alves we've been spending £6m on Pennant and £3m on Gonzalez

[rage]

No actually I don't. I mean the great attacking players to which you allude. Off the top of my head...

Horse £17m
Ronnie £12m
Rooney £27m
Nancy £17m
Saha £13m
Veron £28m (Has Rafa made such a hig-profile trnasfer **** up?)

& Possibly Tevez & Berbatov.

Then there's the likes of

Hargeaves, Anderson & Carrick- all of whom cost high teens of millions.

Defence-wise, Rafa wanted Vidic too & has brought us in Skrtel & Agger fo similarly low fees & who also look excellent.

The big difference is Ferdinand in terms of their progression in defence & look how much he cost -£28m FFS. Agger is a ball-playing CB & we were much more stifled in our play as a result of his injuries last season (also Xabi's I believe, but that's a different point).

With your one-liners, selective arguments, sensationalism & deliberate ignoring of & misrepresentation of facts, you're like a Sun journalist. Maybe you should ask your mate Bascomeb for a job as teaboy.

from that its clear that we cannot financially compete. but for me the sign of a good manager is not just about being able to buy the most expensive players but rather the right players. i would hate for us to succeed simply by copying chelsea for instance. i'd like to think we can earn the title rather than buy the title. under a great manager we should be able to do this no?

[Exiled_red]

from that its clear that we cannot financially compete. but for me the sign of a good manager is not just about being able to buy the most expensive players but rather the right players. i would hate for us to succeed simply by copying chelsea for instance. i'd like to think we can earn the title rather than buy the title. under a great manager we should be able to do this no?

The team that wins the league isn't necessarily managed by the best manager, the resources have alot to do with it. The fact is these days even average players are commanding above average fees so there are very few bargin players out there to be had. You look at the likes of Walcott, Bale and Ramsey none had top flight experience and most had less than a year of competitive football experience and were going for fees between £6m and £12m

[rage]

The team that wins the league isn't necessarily managed by the best manager, the resources have alot to do with it. The fact is these days even average players are commanding above average fees so there are very few bargin players out there to be had. You look at the likes of Walcott, Bale and Ramsey none had top flight experience and most had less than a year of competitive football experience and were going for fees between £6m and £12m

oh i agree that resources have a lot to do with it but i also think that a great manager can win it regardless of a financial handicap.

[lfc1394]

oh i agree that resources have a lot to do with it but i also think that a great manager can win it regardless of a financial handicap.

I agree to an extent, but I think it would take one team to over achieve and one to under achieve for it to happen. Or you have to catch them in a period of transition. It's no surprise last year that Chelsea were with in a whisker of winning both the CL and PL with an at best average manager.

[Rashid]

Finances mean instead of spending £15m on likes of Simao or Alves we've been spending £6m on Pennant and £3m on Gonzalez

There is the finance issue then there is the Rafa quantity obsession issue. We backed out of Alves and ended up Bellamy, Pennant and Kuyt for £22m. He could have got Alvez that season instead of buying Bellamy and Pennant.

Last season instead of a world class winger he put in £12m for Lucas and Benayoun - add that to the Babel money and he could have got Quaresma.

So it isn't just money (he has spent NET more than Fergie and Wenger since he has been here) - it is also about judgement and choices.

[Dhav]

Rafa didn't try for Evra actually, Evra himself said on Sky that the Liverpool rumours were totally false when he was asked about it although he admitted that Houllier was interested when he was quite young so why did you just make that up?

Rafa took over a 4th place team, we finished 4th last year. Period.

My understanding was that Evra was a target of Rafa's. If I am wrong then I stand corrected, although I don't appreciate being accused of making things up.

Your last line barely even merits an acknowledgement, never mind a response.