Boro (h) Post match thread

[anfieldanfield]

I think you are wrong!

In my opinion, sissoko had a better chance of being a success at Anfield. :bird:

Lucas will be sold next summer.....in my opinion!

I desperately hope I'm wrong, but I happen to agree with this.

Lucas looks dead average to me.

[Rashid]

Wasn't it Parry who got Rafa?

[rage]

that was as bad a performance as i've ever seen at anfield but then when i saw the match of the day highlights it didn't look half as bad.

my thoughts on the xabi bashers (especially those who suck up to kuyt till the bitter end - oh you of double standards) - yes he played below what he is capable of but our football was so crap. of course he's going to get hassled very quickly when the opposition knows that everything goes through him. we were so predictable, sideways pass, sideways pass and hoof or sideways pass get the ball to xabi. he was our only outlet.

was there any movement up front - was there ****, torres was trying to make space all over the place, yossi and kuyt offered nothing and keane can only get better. my greatest fear is that the formation we play will result in liverpool ruining the confidence of this very good striker.

we got lucky, we can only get better, aurelio is a better full back than dosena, arbeloa and kuyt are too weak down the right to create anything and thank god for scouse grit.

[sackparry]

Are you sure you actually support Liverpool? I mean you were hanging around the match thread for most of the game having your little digs, and once we were 1-0 down you started up your Rafa slagging thread. But then the funny thing is as we got back to 1-1 and then 2-1, you seemed to disappear. Surely if you were a real fan you'd be celebrating a cracking last minute win regardless of your feelings?

I'm not saying this purely because you are negative against Rafa, as I know the other so called negative guys such as Sarb and rage would have been cheering as loud as anyone when Gerrard's winner. You however seemed to make a hasty exit from here as it meant you couldn't really continue with your agenda.

yes because i would obviously get so wound up by rafa if i didnt support the club? i'm just a fan who was a kid in the late eighties and actually saw good football, hell even you lot forget how good we were under evans and how damn close we were to winning the league in 96/97

[TartanTerror]

I think Dossena showed glimpses of being able to beat a man without pace. I wonder if that would not be a better way of breaking teams down, having two fullbacks that have the legs to get up and down the pitch, but dribble well enough to beat their man not needing to rely on pace. Will be interesting to see how Dossena develops.

[MrMichael]

my thoughts on the xabi bashers (especially those who suck up to kuyt till the bitter end - oh you of double standards)

A) - Its not "bashing" Xabi to point out that he had a poor game, his distribution was nowhere near his usual high standard.

B) Its not "sucking up" to Kuyt to point out that, on the basis of that game, he didn't deserve the volume of criticism aimed at him afterwards.

Why isn't it possible to make comment on how a player played in a match without it being either "bashing" or "sucking up". I support every player that goes out on the pitch wearing our shirt, and I base my opinion on their performance on how I saw them play, nothing more, nothing less.

yes because i would obviously get so wound up by rafa if i didnt support the club? i'm just a fan who was a kid in the late eighties and actually saw good football, hell even you lot forget how good we were under evans and how damn close we were to winning the league in 96/97

Now don't exaggerate too much, we were no closer than we were last season.

FA Carling Premiership 1996/97
Pos Team P W D L F A W D L F A Pts
1 Manchester United 38 12 5 2 38 17 9 7 3 38 27 75
2 Newcastle United 38 13 3 3 54 20 6 8 5 19 20 68
3 Arsenal 38 10 5 4 36 18 9 6 4 26 14 68
4 Liverpool 38 10 6 3 38 19 9 5 5 24 18 68

We weren't that good under Evans, played some decent football and did pretty well, but at no point did we ever actually look like really winning the title. His overall win/loss record was slightly worse than Houllier's, and significantly worse than Rafa's.

Name From To Record P W D L F A W%
Roy Evans January 1994 July 1998 226 116 57 53 375 216 51.33%
Gérard Houllier November 1998 May 2004 307 158 75 74 516 298 51.47%
Rafael Benítez June 2004 Present 239 134 50 55 395 202 56.07%


We played brilliant footy in the late 80's, I still have the video of the 5-0 Notts Forest game which was one of the best displays I've seen before or since, but that was a long time ago now.

Thing is fella, getting frustrated by the way we play at times is fine, we all get like that, what people don't understand and why they'd think you aren;t a lfc fan is the way in which you seem to take a perverse delight in our bad moments, as they allow you to justify your overall position/agenda and make inflammatory statements without proper explanation or discussion, and then you are nowhere to be seen in our good ones. Calling for the manager's head after 2 games (and 6 points) of the season is both silly, and would get us absolutely nowhere, and abusing our players, whatever your opinion of their abilities, is distasteful, classless, and simply not the liverpool way.

[Woobus]

my thoughts on the xabi bashers (especially those who suck up to kuyt till the bitter end - oh you of double standards) - yes he played below what he is capable of but our football was so crap.
was there any movement up front - was there ****

Has the Xabi bashing really been that bad, most of it has been if he doesnt get time on the ball he isnt as effective? Its nothing compared with the nasty personnel attacks Kuyt and Pennant receive daily. If people are going to attack Liverpool players that harshly then you would hope the normal Liverpool fans would stick up for them.
Blaming Kuyt for Xabi not playing well doesnt surprise me in the slightest, but its nonsense one thing Kuyt does is move about a lot. He doesnt stop running for the whole match.

[Rashid]

A) - Its not "bashing" Xabi to point out that he had a poor game, his distribution was nowhere near his usual high standard.

B) Its not "sucking up" to Kuyt to point out that, on the basis of that game, he didn't deserve the volume of criticism aimed at him afterwards.

Why isn't it possible to make comment on how a player played in a match without it being either "bashing" or "sucking up". I support every player that goes out on the pitch wearing our shirt, and I base my opinion on their performance on how I saw them play, nothing more, nothing less.



Now don't exaggerate too much, we were no closer than we were last season.

FA Carling Premiership 1996/97
Pos Team P W D L F A W D L F A Pts
1 Manchester United 38 12 5 2 38 17 9 7 3 38 27 75
2 Newcastle United 38 13 3 3 54 20 6 8 5 19 20 68
3 Arsenal 38 10 5 4 36 18 9 6 4 26 14 68
4 Liverpool 38 10 6 3 38 19 9 5 5 24 18 68

We weren't that good under Evans, played some decent football and did pretty well, but at no point did we ever actually look like really winning the title. His overall win/loss record was slightly worse than Houllier's, and significantly worse than Rafa's.

Name From To Record P W D L F A W%
Roy Evans January 1994 July 1998 226 116 57 53 375 216 51.33%
Gérard Houllier November 1998 May 2004 307 158 75 74 516 298 51.47%
Rafael Benítez June 2004 Present 239 134 50 55 395 202 56.07%


We played brilliant footy in the late 80's, I still have the video of the 5-0 Notts Forest game which was one of the best displays I've seen before or since, but that was a long time ago now.

Thing is fella, getting frustrated by the way we play at times is fine, we all get like that, what people don't understand and why they'd think you aren;t a lfc fan is the way in which you seem to take a perverse delight in our bad moments, as they allow you to justify your overall position/agenda and make inflammatory statements without proper explanation or discussion, and then you are nowhere to be seen in our good ones. Calling for the manager's head after 2 games (and 6 points) of the season is both silly, and would get us absolutely nowhere, and abusing our players, whatever your opinion of their abilities, is distasteful, classless, and simply not the liverpool way.

Even taking into inflation and the state of the game, Evans spent a fraction of what Houllier and Rafa have.

[MrMichael]

Even taking into inflation and the state of the game, Evans spent a fraction of what Houllier and Rafa have.

He also had Fowler, McManaman, Redknapp and Owen come through the youth setup. I have no idea of the figures, but I'd guess that, for his time, Evans spending was quite significant relatively to other teams in the league. Anyway, I liked Roy Evans, but he was no more a potential title winning manager than say, Sammy Lee is.

[Rashid]

He also had Fowler, McManaman, Redknapp and Owen come through the youth setup. I have no idea of the figures, but I'd guess that, for his time, Evans spending was quite significant relatively to other teams in the league. Anyway, I liked Roy Evans, but he was no more a potential title winning manager than say, Sammy Lee is.

No it wasn't - he was there at a time when Newcastle were spending £15m on Shearer and another £8m on Ferdinand in the same season.

Evan's NET spend was £6m a season, Houllier £11m, Rafa £22m.

[MrMichael]

No it wasn't - he was there at a time when Newcastle were spending £15m on Shearer and another £8m on Ferdinand in the same season.

Evan's NET spend was £6m a season, Houllier £11m, Rafa £22m.

Ok, but by that yardstick then Rafa's been here when Chelsea have been spending £100m net a season. And we never won the Champions League with Evans.

Anyway, we're going in circles here Rashid, I get your point and part of me agrees with part of it, that it really would be nice if we played more expansive and entertaining football more often, but I also think you're over-egging the pudding. And that we might as well get behind the team and be happy with the good things we have, rather than constantly focus on the negative. Im the position we are in at board level, ie. having a bunch of muppets running the club, replacing Rafa now could easily become a horror show, rather than the opposite.

Look on the bright side a bit, we could be Spurs afterall

Go on, bite Barry, oh please just see this and bite!

[Rashid]

Ok, but by that yardstick then Rafa's been here when Chelsea have been spending £100m net a season. And we never won the Champions League with Evans.

Anyway, we're going in circles here Rashid, I get your point and part of me agrees with part of it, that it really would be nice if we played more expansive and entertaining football more often, but I also think you're over-egging the pudding. And that we might as well get behind the team and be happy with the good things we have, rather than constantly focus on the negative. Im the position we are in at board level, ie. having a bunch of muppets running the club, replacing Rafa now could easily become a horror show, rather than the opposite.

Look on the bright side a bit, we could be Spurs afterall

Go on, bite Barry, oh please just see this and bite!

Rafa has never had it so good, no manager in the PL over the past 2 years (since the "Muppets" have been in) or any manager in LFC history (taking into account inflation and state of the market) has been backed with as much money as Rafa has given the position of the club (we are no longer number 1 with the best revenues in England).

I think Rafa has underachieved in the league and as you say, I don't think his teams play football as it should be, not even close to it.

2 games 2 wins is fabulous and we can't ask for more - but I hold these views whether we win lose or draw Michael.

[Nicey]

Josemi*Rey
Antonio*Nunez
Luis*Garcia - Class
Xabi*Alonso - Class
Mauricio*Pellegrino -For nothing now part of the coaching set up and a stand up guy by all accounts
Fernando*Morientes -Did not take to the English game it happens see Forlan for reference
Scott*Carson Class made money on
Antonio*Barragan Class young player I beleive we made money on
Boudewijn*Zenden Class ultity squad player cost us nothing .. suffered unfortunate injuries
Jose*Reina Best Goal Keeper in the LG since he arrived World Class
Mohamed*Sissoko Class Fantastic player we made money on, form suffered after some horrendous injuries
Peter*Crouch Class scored some important goals made money on
Mark*Gonzalez For me Jury still out - classy little player and yet again we made money on him
Jan*Kromkamp - Ok ****
Daniel*Agger - World Class
David*Martin -Decent signing
Robbie*Fowler Special very very special signing
Craig*Bellamy Worth a punt
Gabriel*Paletta Did not cut the mustard
Fábio*Aurélio Great signing suffers from injuries
Jermaine*Pennant I like him, has consistently been good when given the chance, a certain section of the fans made there mind up about him before he came and no amount of great performances including some very very important ones will change there mind
Dirk*Kuyt - Love Dirk Kuyt
Álvaro*Arbeloa - Decent Signing
Javier*Mascherano - World Class best holding mid field player in the world let alone lg
Lucas*Leiva Future Star
Sebastian*Leto - Great little player
Fernando*Torres - World Class one of the best strikers in the World
Andriy*Voronin - Has not cut the mustard .. has not seen much action to be fair
Yossi*Benayoun - I like Benny very classy squad player imo
Ryan*Babel - We will see what he is made of this season
Charles*Itandje - Back up goal keeper .. nuff said
Emiliano*Insúa - Classy little player
Martin*Skrtel - Potentially World Class
Javier*Mascherano - Again World Class !
Philipp*Degen - Have seen him play yet
Andrea*Dossena - I ****ing love this guy, his delivery into the box is outstanding .. looks quality
Diego*Cavalieri - Looks a very good No.2 Goal Keeper
David*Ngog - Looks solid we shall see
Robbie*Keane - What is not to like about Robbie Keane

Looking at that I more than happpy with his dealings in the transfer market .. he has signed best goal keeper in the Lg, best holding Mid field player in the world, best striker in the Lg, one of the top 5 strikers in the lg, a couple of truly outstanding CBs which I would be more than happy with taking over from Sami and Carra in the long term and he has made money on nearly all the players he has shipped out ... Whats not to like

[Exiled_red]

He also had Fowler, McManaman, Redknapp and Owen come through the youth setup. I have no idea of the figures, but I'd guess that, for his time, Evans spending was quite significant relatively to other teams in the league. Anyway, I liked Roy Evans, but he was no more a potential title winning manager than say, Sammy Lee is.

Yeah I think Evans spending was typical of that of the teams in the top half of the table.

I always think Roy Evans gets alot of unfair critisism, I mean he did well to turn the team around so quickly from where it was under Souness.

[MindGuerrillas]

People go on about Wenger but that forget to mention that he has about a NET spend of £4m a season over the past 4 years. Rafa has £20m a season and has spent over £100m over the past 18 months

That's probably because 4 years ago Wenger was in possession of a squad that were the current league champions and had gone the whole season undefeated. Rafa, meanwhile, was in possession of a squad that just scraped into 4th place the season before and was, apart from 2 or 3 players, essentially worthless. In 2004 they were starting from very different levels - Wenger from a position of immense strength, Rafa from a position of immense weakness. We've been playing catch-up ever since and are only now starting to get close to the teams that finished above us in 2004.