The Youth Academy

[nbryan1764]

Barcelona?

Arsenal havent brought players through though have they. They have bought very good young players which is the model I believe that Rafa is trying to emulate. I cannot think off the top of my head of anyone that Arsenal have brought through their academy in the way that we brought through Gerrard and Carragher (and Owen, Fowler, and McManaman before them)

[Rashid]

Arsenal havent brought players through though have they. They have bought very good young players which is the model I believe that Rafa is trying to emulate. I cannot think off the top of my head of anyone that Arsenal have brought through their academy in the way that we brought through Gerrard and Carragher (and Owen, Fowler, and McManaman before them)

Ashley Cole? David Bentley?

[nbryan1764]

Furthermore, the accusation that he is making his own academy is in my opinion misguided. The rules state that for the Academy you can only bring in players that live within a certain radius of the facility (I think it is 100 miles). If buying in young players from wherever you are not bound by such and therefore the strategy appears to be get enough young players in from wherever and the odds that one or two will break through will increase.

[nbryan1764]

Ashley Cole? David Bentley?

fair enough Ashley Cole, but David Bentley? A success for Arsenal? I am not interested in bringing in players that are successful anywhere else. Oce they leave Liverpool they leave simple as. I couldnt give a flying one whether they make it somewhere else.

[Resu]

fair enough Ashley Cole, but David Bentley? A success for Arsenal? I am not interested in bringing in players that are successful anywhere else. Oce they leave Liverpool they leave simple as. I couldnt give a flying one whether they make it somewhere else.

I don`t agree 100% with you here. Creating players that can be sold to weaker a PL or Champiomship club will generate money for the club. I know this isn`t the reason we have a academy, but it has to taken into account. The sale off Guthrie gave us more or less what it costs to run the academy for a year. IMO the academy should be "self-sustainable" each year, and when players like Owen, Carra and Gerrrard comes by it`s a major "profit" for the club.

[The_weatherman]

Furthermore, the accusation that he is making his own academy is in my opinion misguided. The rules state that for the Academy you can only bring in players that live within a certain radius of the facility (I think it is 100 miles). If buying in young players from wherever you are not bound by such and therefore the strategy appears to be get enough young players in from wherever and the odds that one or two will break through will increase.

A very valid point I must say, Rafa is simply expanding the catchment area by doing this.

[barnes10]

but surely rafa's problem, and the reason he wants control is that he's not got people of calibre around him.

the youth team simply isnt good enough to put players in the first team unless we have a first team of everton's standards. every year 1 or 2 get pulled in, get a couple of chances and, until plessis, are shipped on.

parry needs his arse kicking for numerous reasons and we've lost rafa's main aide. its only natural that he'd want to oversee everything until he is supperted by people he rates. given that rafa works about 18hrs a day, its a tall order for most but he needs to be supported by top people. otherwise he won't be able to proceed with his plans for the club.

[DomL]

To be ohnest heighway had his way of supposedly doing things and well to be ohnest it was wrong, he supposed gems are whare now playing league one and two football and not anywhare near our first team, i mean he said that spearing was ready for the first team at what seventeen he isnt even ready now and i doubt he ever would be.

If i was Rafa i would deffinatly look at new coaches because some of our previous ones have obviously not been up to scratch and people need to realise how good you have to be to play for this club.

Now im not going to comment on the inner workings of the club because ohnestly i dont know if its true of false.

The one thing i will agree with though is that Kirby needs to go or at least shouldnt be for ages 17-18

For me it should end to fifteen by then you should know if a player will develop enough or be developed enough for the first team or reserves.

In a way you are seeing this sixtenn seventeen year olds are being braught into the reserve side which shows they have the quality for the first team, when you look at most teams if they are good enough they will start playing for the first team if needed at seventeen.

Look at Pacheco he has made appearances at seventeen and is the most likely to make it at that age for now in my oppinion.

After a huge clear out next year which i expect to happen spearing, possibly nemeth, Darby, Anderson, Insua again possibly Plessis, Putteril, Antwi, Brouwer, Simon and Gary Mackay-Steven and possibly more.

Although i do expect Hammil to stay and play for this club if he has a good enough season at championship level.

I would then expect many from the under 18's to step up to the reserves if their good enough and the age range to drop for the for under 18's.

Its the way i see it with the academy and the reserves but i may well be wrong.

[DannyMan2006]

That would be all well and good if he was relying on the academy to produce the players that he uses - e.g. if he was Ajax boss he would want to work more closely with the youth given that's the largest source for his recruitment. Rafa though has spent hundreds of millions on buying in the players to make him successful.

I don't think any manager should have the remit that extends beyond the first team, not even Ferguson has that at United anymore by his own admission. Times have changed big time, to be honest only since Houllier and Rafa have arrived has a LFC manager demanded so much control.

Rafa should work with the Liverpool way not the other way around, and that's my major gripe with giving managers control - imagine if we gave full control of the academy (Heighway didn't) to Houllier - the whole youth team would be playing hoofball over a period of 6 years.

I know I come across as anti-Rafa - I don't hide it - I don't think he has had enough success to deserve the accolades he gets and the control he demands.

Given that Houllier was in charge of bringing through the great French teams I could argue that maybe that would not have been the case.

And when you speak about Rafa and Youth in the same sentence, you would do well to remember that Rafa was a Youth coach at Real Madrid and that he brought through the likes of Raul and Eto'o. He has been in Steve Heighways shoes and knows the job. He should be able to recognise if something was not right at the Academy.

My guess is that Rafa compared the technical abilities of players brought through by Heighway to the technical abilities of the players he brought through whilst he was Youth Coach at Real Madrid. You can not expect to produce world class players who will walk into the first team squad every few years or so, but what you can and should expect is that all the players were trained up to a reasonable standard when it comes to technical ability.

This is not a swipe at Steve Heighway, because when you look at the stae of the England team you realise that this is a problem that runs right through the English game. Wenger has changed things around at Arsenal with fantastic results - but even he had to buy from abroad to fill the huge gaping gap left due to a lack of well trained home grown players. It's only now after about 10 years that the likes of Jack Wiltshire and Henri Lansbury are coming through as proper home grown English players. Maybe they wll make the Arsenal squad and maybe not, but they will have the desired levels when it comes to technical abilities.

Chelsea are on the same track with Frank Arnesen and Spurs to are making great strides. Benitez is in effect copying the Real Madrid model, but in the mean time is going down the route that Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea have gone and that is by buying players to plug the gaps.

[Rashid]

Rafa was sacked as youth team coach by Madrid by the way such was his success, by none other than Jorge Valdano.

These debates are difficult as with some people Rafa can do no wrong.

[DannyMan2006]

Rafa was sacked as youth team coach by Madrid by the way such was his success, by none other than Jorge Valdano.

These debates are difficult as with some people Rafa can do no wrong.

No he wasn't mate. He had great success at Youth levels leading to his promotion to assisstant manager of the B-team and then manager of the B-team. He was then moved up to assistant manager of the first team, but such is life at Real Madrid he lasted one season before being demoted back to the B-team. After one more season with them he left to start his career as a first team coach away from Real Madrid.

So whilst I accept he was binned from the Real first team (no shame as everyone is), he only got that chance down to success at Youth and the reserve levels.

[dww]

I know the source is less than stellar but this is what wiki has to say about his youth team career:
Real Madrid youth coach

In 1986, at the age of twenty six, Benítez returned to Real Madrid and joined the club’s coaching staff. At the start of the 1986-87 season he was appointed coach of Castilla B. With this team he won two league titles in 1987 and 1989. He won a third league title with Real Madrid Youth B in 1990. Halfway through the 1990-91 season he succeeded José Antonio Camacho as the coach of the Real Madrid U-19s. With this team he won the Spain U-19 Cup in 1991 and 1993, beating FC Barcelona in both finals. In 1993 the team completed a double when they also won the national U-19 league. While at Real, Benítez also gained his coaching certificate in 1989 and in the summer of 1990 he taught at a football camp at UC Davis in California.

During the 1992-93 season Benítez also worked as an assistant coach to Mariano García Remón at Real Madrid B. After his success with the U-19s, Benítez then succeeded García Remón at the start of the 1993-94 season. Real Madrid B were then playing in the Segunda División and on September 4 1993 he made his debut as a Segunda División manager with a 3-1 over Hércules CF. In March 1994 he became assistant manager to Vicente Del Bosque with the senior Real Madrid team before returning to coach Real Madrid B for the 1994-95 season.[4]

[DannyMan2006]

I know the source is less than stellar but this is what wiki has to say about his youth team career:
Real Madrid youth coach

In 1986, at the age of twenty six, Benítez returned to Real Madrid and joined the club’s coaching staff. At the start of the 1986-87 season he was appointed coach of Castilla B. With this team he won two league titles in 1987 and 1989. He won a third league title with Real Madrid Youth B in 1990. Halfway through the 1990-91 season he succeeded José Antonio Camacho as the coach of the Real Madrid U-19s. With this team he won the Spain U-19 Cup in 1991 and 1993, beating FC Barcelona in both finals. In 1993 the team completed a double when they also won the national U-19 league. While at Real, Benítez also gained his coaching certificate in 1989 and in the summer of 1990 he taught at a football camp at UC Davis in California.

During the 1992-93 season Benítez also worked as an assistant coach to Mariano García Remón at Real Madrid B. After his success with the U-19s, Benítez then succeeded García Remón at the start of the 1993-94 season. Real Madrid B were then playing in the Segunda División and on September 4 1993 he made his debut as a Segunda División manager with a 3-1 over Hércules CF. In March 1994 he became assistant manager to Vicente Del Bosque with the senior Real Madrid team before returning to coach Real Madrid B for the 1994-95 season.[4]

Explains it far better than I did. Happy Rashid? Do you concede tha you may be wrong this time, or will you ignore this

[Rashid]

I read an article which said he was sacked. Sorry if I was wrong.

[Redspin]

The following are two posts, one from Dave Usher (who has followed the youth teams for 10 years and writes for the Echo on it) and also from another follower. I find these posts disturbing, both Houllier before him and Rafa now seem to refused to work with the academy.

FYI: Rafa didn't appoint the current director either, the guy from Ajax was appointed by Parry.

Dave Usher



M.C.

The player Heighway said that was good enough to play in the first team was Jay Spearing. A decent lad, but clearly Heighway was a tad premature in his assessment, as far as Premier League appearances go. Spearing will do well in our Carling Cup teams but he's not good enough for a regular league place by any means