Who will be our next captain?

[ukfootballfan101]

Agree. And as I posted elsewhere, I think he will. He's playing catch up though, the education he got from the academy didn't really prepare him to play in a Rafa team, but he has everything else you need. He may break through later than you would like, but I think he'll make it.

There's a really long article in issue 65 of the liverpool way fanzine about the academy and how f**ked up it is because of the politics between Rafa and Rick Parry.

According to this article the academy is Rick Parry's pet project, he spends more time there than anywhere else, and probably knows more about the the individual players than Rafa does.

Now because Rafa doesn't like how the academy is run, and he also doesn't want to be seen to support something that Rick Parry is so heavily involved in he doesn't want to play academy players, even though he now has an extra 2 spots on the bench this season.

The article goes on to discuss the quality of the young players being brought in from around the world and states that 99% of them will never make it in the first team, but they are there to take up space so academy players don't even get reserve games.

Its got so bad parents of kids who are around 15 years old are trying to pull their lads out of the academy so they can join Everton, Blackburn and a fe other clubs.

Unless this gets sorted out soon I don't think Darby will get a look in. Has he been in the squad for a competitive game this season? I can't remember if he has.

Has anyone else read the article i'm talking about?

[bobbyfallon]

if it is someone at the club at present ad will be still here in prob 5 years when steve surrenders his captaincy i would have skertel or agger as they will be more mature at that stage.

..... can i also add that both are better footballers than carra

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

he has, i mentioned him in my post

didn't notice got bored of reading all the slagging off

[El Jefecito]

There's a really long article in issue 65 of the liverpool way fanzine about the academy and how f**ked up it is because of the politics between Rafa and Rick Parry.

According to this article the academy is Rick Parry's pet project, he spends more time there than anywhere else, and probably knows more about the the individual players than Rafa does.

Now because Rafa doesn't like how the academy is run, and he also doesn't want to be seen to support something that Rick Parry is so heavily involved in he doesn't want to play academy players, even though he now has an extra 2 spots on the bench this season.

The article goes on to discuss the quality of the young players being brought in from around the world and states that 99% of them will never make it in the first team, but they are there to take up space so academy players don't even get reserve games.

Its got so bad parents of kids who are around 15 years old are trying to pull their lads out of the academy so they can join Everton, Blackburn and a fe other clubs.

Unless this gets sorted out soon I don't think Darby will get a look in. Has he been in the squad for a competitive game this season? I can't remember if he has.

Has anyone else read the article i'm talking about?

No but I read posts on TLW and that sentiment is rife. I don't believe half of it. There are people with agendas and I have to say chips on their shoulders that local lads aren't being fast tracked into the team.

If the standards at the academy are higher such that that parents with **** kids are going elsewhere, then all the better. If Liverpool want to be the best team in the world, then we need the best players at all levels.

You can't give people a free pass just because they have a scouse accent.
That happened under Heighway, but not anymore, now it's about survival of the fittest, and that's how it should be IMO.

BTW Rafa should have no dealings with the academy, that's Ablett's job. Rafa concentrates on who from the reserves can make the step up. It's down to Ablett to see who can make the step up from the academy to the reserves.

The whole things smells of Usher agenda.

I watch all that I can of the academy and reserves and I'll tell you 99% of ALL players won't make it. It's got nothing to do with where they are from and all to do with how hard it is to get into one of the top teams in the world. To paint it as though it's the foreigners that aren't good enough frankly stinks of Xenophobia. Let's face it no local lad has broke through since SG, so should we run around saying 100% of all scousers aren't good enough. Simplistic, disingenuous and agenda ridden.

Now I will admit that there is a problem with getting players game time, at all levels, there are too many IMO and that's presenting difficulties as all the reserves squad places are filled and it's difficult for lads like Ecclestone to take the next step. But to try and pass it off as some kind of Rafa racism against scousers is a bunch of BS.

[bobbyfallon]

i dont have a clue about the youth set up etc but i would have thought that this would be predominatly made up of scousers and its up to them to then make the step up to the academy or reserves from there??

if they are good enuf they will get picked

[El Jefecito]

i dont have a clue about the youth set up etc but i would have thought that this would be predominatly made up of scousers and its up to them to then make the step up to the academy or reserves from there??

if they are good enuf they will get picked

There are quite a few foreigners in the Academy too.

What people are saying though is that Rafa is deliberately preventing players from the academy in making the step up, by bringing in young kids like Nemeth and Ngog and putting them straight into the reserves. Hence denying the local lads the place in the reserves that they are entitled to.

if they are good enuf they will get picked

Some on TLW genuinely believe, for example, that Rafa thinks Spearing is better than Lucas and that Rafa is not choosing him because he's a scouser from the academy and not his own signing

[bobbyfallon]

There are quite a few foreigners in the Academy too.

What people are saying though is that Rafa is deliberately preventing players from the academy in making the step up, by bringing in young kids like Nemeth and Ngog and putting them straight into the reserves. Hence denying the local lads the place in the reserves that they are entitled to.



Some on TLW genuinely believe, for example, that Rafa thinks Spearing is better than Lucas and that Rafa is not choosing him because he's a scouser from the academy and not his own signing

that bit would be hard to believe imo

[El Jefecito]

that bit would be hard to believe imo

Mine too, but they genuinely believe it. That's why I take all the Usher stuff with a pinch of salt. There are problems for sure, not for those reasons.

[ukfootballfan101]

No but I read posts on TLW and that sentiment is rife. I don't believe half of it. There are people with agendas and I have to say chips on their shoulders that local lads aren't being fast tracked into the team.

If the standards at the academy are higher such that that parents with **** kids are going elsewhere, then all the better. If Liverpool want to be the best team in the world, then we need the best players at all levels.

You can't give people a free pass just because they have a scouse accent.
That happened under Heighway, but not anymore, now it's about survival of the fittest, and that's how it should be IMO.

BTW Rafa should have no dealings with the academy, that's Ablett's job. Rafa concentrates on who from the reserves can make the step up. It's down to Ablett to see who can make the step up from the academy to the reserves.

The whole things smells of Usher agenda.

I watch all that I can of the academy and reserves and I'll tell you 99% of ALL players won't make it. It's got nothing to do with where they are from and all to do with how hard it is to get into one of the top teams in the world. To paint it as though it's the foreigners that aren't good enough frankly stinks of Xenophobia. Let's face it no local lad has broke through since SG, so should we run around saying 100% of all scousers aren't good enough. Simplistic, disingenuous and agenda ridden.

Now I will admit that there is a problem with getting players game time, at all levels, there are too many IMO and that's presenting difficulties as all the reserves squad places are filled and it's difficult for lads like Ecclestone to take the next step. But to try and pass it off as some kind of Rafa racism against scousers is a bunch of BS.

I'm not sure if I agree that Rafa should have no dealings with the academy, there are pros and cons for both sides of the arguement; He has the experience of managing youth setups, putting his coaches in the academy could help players get in the first teams as they would be learning "his sytem" from a young age. The cons would be what would happen if Rafa left, would all the coaches go with him? Would a new manager want to replace them all?

Wenger seems to have a big influence on the youth setup at Aresenal, it would be interesting to find out how they work it.


I completely agree that getting a place in the reserve team or first team for that matter should always be about how hard the player works and not where they are from.


I don't think its "racisim" on Rafa's part, the article I read described it more as a tactic in the tit for tat game thats being played between Rafa and Rick Parry.

i dont have a clue about the youth set up etc but i would have thought that this would be predominatly made up of scousers and its up to them to then make the step up to the academy or reserves from there??

if they are good enuf they will get picked

Thats how it should be!, I'm just not sure if it is anymore.

There are quite a few foreigners in the Academy too.

What people are saying though is that Rafa is deliberately preventing players from the academy in making the step up, by bringing in young kids like Nemeth and Ngog and putting them straight into the reserves. Hence denying the local lads the place in the reserves that they are entitled to.

Some on TLW genuinely believe, for example, that Rafa thinks Spearing is better than Lucas and that Rafa is not choosing him because he's a scouser from the academy and not his own signing

I don't think anyone should be entitled to a place in the team, its all about effort...

I'm a big fan of Spearing, he has alot of heart, he's a great tackler and in my opinion one of the best players in the reserve team. Is he better than Lucas? That is to hard to judge, i've only ever seen Spearing play for the reserves and Lucas, although he's played well, hasn't exactly set the world alight since joining us (i'm not having a go, just stating a fact, i'm also a fan of Lucas!)

I think Spearing is good enough to play in the prem, is he good enough to play for Liverpool? probably not, but if he was getting sub appearances every so often in the first team he could be sold on to the likes of Bolton for £5m - £6m..as I can't see him displacing Gerrard, Mach, or Alonso...


I really hope the last comment about Spearing/Lucas/Rafa is wrong, but the more I read, the more i'm leaning towards agreeing with it...I'm still in two minds though.

[Darth Marty]

My elbow is lean and sexy.

[pondus]

Some on TLW genuinely believe, for example, that Rafa thinks Spearing is better than Lucas and that Rafa is not choosing him because he's a scouser from the academy and not his own signing

I find this very hard to believe, would go as far as calling it nonsense although I do not know the facts.

My guess would be someone on TLW has their own agenda against Rafa. Maybe someone there knows some of the youngsters at the club that isn't getting promoted? Wild speculation though..

Bluenoses have started rumors to hurt us before, haven't they? Not that the TLW people are bluenoses, that's not what I meant.

[cadmium]

Gerrard once threatened to kill my nans dog

[El Jefecito]

I'm not sure if I agree that Rafa should have no dealings with the academy, there are pros and cons for both sides of the arguement; He has the experience of managing youth setups, putting his coaches in the academy could help players get in the first teams as they would be learning "his sytem" from a young age. The cons would be what would happen if Rafa left, would all the coaches go with him? Would a new manager want to replace them all?

Wenger seems to have a big influence on the youth setup at Aresenal, it would be interesting to find out how they work it.


I completely agree that getting a place in the reserve team or first team for that matter should always be about how hard the player works and not where they are from.


I don't think its "racisim" on Rafa's part, the article I read described it more as a tactic in the tit for tat game thats being played between Rafa and Rick Parry.



Thats how it should be!, I'm just not sure if it is anymore.





I don't think anyone should be entitled to a place in the team, its all about effort...

I'm a big fan of Spearing, he has alot of heart, he's a great tackler and in my opinion one of the best players in the reserve team. Is he better than Lucas? That is to hard to judge, i've only ever seen Spearing play for the reserves and Lucas, although he's played well, hasn't exactly set the world alight since joining us (i'm not having a go, just stating a fact, i'm also a fan of Lucas!)

I think Spearing is good enough to play in the prem, is he good enough to play for Liverpool? probably not, but if he was getting sub appearances every so often in the first team he could be sold on to the likes of Bolton for £5m - £6m..as I can't see him displacing Gerrard, Mach, or Alonso...


I really hope the last comment about Spearing/Lucas/Rafa is wrong, but the more I read, the more i'm leaning towards agreeing with it...I'm still in two minds though.

I do disagree on the Academy thing. That is currently under Piet Hamburg and Owens and it needs to stay that way. For sure Rafa could help but he needs to focus on the first team whose training programs, physical development plans, nutrition requirements, tactical training etc are all very very different from what is needed at youth level. Hamburg came through the Ajax playing and coaching system and interviews I've seen with him were very very impressive, I think he is the right guy to define and deliver the vision for the academy and I don't think advice aside Rafa is really in a position to add much.

On to Spearing and Darby et al. I really feel for those lads because I think they have been on the end of a raw deal. I think they are suffering because of the kind of coaching they got when Heighway was in charge of the Academy. I think we can all now see that Rafa's teams are tactical teams and that to succeed within the style he plays you need to be tactically astute and have great game intelligence. Those two were never exposed to that and hence they fall down in that area. Spearing has a tendency to go into headless chicken mode which I can imagine is about the greatest sin in the whole world as far as Rafa is concerned. But no-one ever told the lad about the importance of holding your position, not forcing the game, changing the game through tempo vs. hollywood passes etc.

If you are going to displace Xabi/SG/El Jefecito you need to be a well rounded footballer, alas, the prior academy seemed more interested in turning out hustle / bustle / english style players who could win a youth cup.

So while Spearing will in all likelihood make a great footballer in an "english" team, I just don't see that he has the tools to make it in our team which is to all intents and purposes a "continental" team.

That said, I'm hoping that Ablett recognizes this and is doing all he can to correct the situation as I like those on TLW believe that a 9 out of 10 scouser is worth 11 out of 10 in a liverpool team.

[frank the tank]

getting back to the original post, i must say that i think it is a bit pointless in speculating who our captain will be in a few years time. Put it this way, I reckon stevie will be the man for at least 4 more seasons and for all we know, the first team will look completely different in 4 seasons.....

if you were asking the question, who is our vice-vice captain, then i would say alonso. If jamie and stevie were out of the team at the same time, then i reckon alonso would be the man. He links the whole play together and dictates the pace of our games....


also, on the original poster calling gerrard a ****ing asshole... to be honest, stevie is a legend of a player. If we can win the league more than once before he retires AND the CL again before he hangs up his boots, then stevie has the potential to go down in history as our greatest ever player. Some people will say that souness should get it, some people will say barnes and some obviously say the king kenny, however for me gerrard would edge it as our greatest. The main reason for this would be that stevie has the potential to be a maldini-esqe player (as does carra) in coming thru the youth teams of a great club and leading them to domestic and european glory... I'll tell ya one thing, stevie could **** it all up by leaving liverpool when he is aged around 35 in search of first team football...(doubt he would do that though to be perfectly honest)

However, he does also strike me as a bit of a prick....one instance of this was when he hogged the **** out of old big ears in istanbul.... i'm telling ya, he wouldnt leave any other player lift the thing up... BUT i actually reckon that in reality, stevie is just a shy person. He doesn't hog the limelight and maybe comes across as a bit of an asshole where in actual fact, he is just a little uncomfortable in interview situations... One thing is for sure, stevie seems very popular with the other players. Also, maybe gerrard is just wary of people in general - after all he has had to put up with a lot of ****e in liverpool - like gangsters threatening him cos he was tapping some skank that was an ex of some scumbag, he was also being blackmailed at one time, then you have the threats when he looked like he was leaving the club.....

to be perfectly honest, who gives a **** so long as he keeps hittin them from 40 yards!!!!

[Jaymo]

When we see the likes of Gerrard and Carragher not playing anymore, which will be a great shame, i think the squad will have changed that much that we dont know who will still be in the team.

But i can see Mascherano being a future captain, along with Reina.