Kids ?

[red g]

Why cant they play in the first team for the league cup?

How long has Wilshere been at Arsenal then? He's only 16 mate, it cant have been long, can it? He's had a few chances to play (and shine) for the first team against PL opposition.

Wilshere looks an exceptional talent though and wilshere has been at arsenal longer than Rafa has been at liverpool!!!

I think you can only judge Rafa on his youth set up in 5 years time.

[cumbriankop]

Why cant they play in the first team for the league cup?

How long has Wilshere been at Arsenal then? He's only 16 mate, it cant have been long, can it? He's had a few chances to play (and shine) for the first team against PL opposition.

wilshere has been with the club for probably twice the time el zhar has. he arrived aged 9 or something when the wenger system was in place and has been helped by it. i would like to see more youngsters on the bench now we have the 7 sub rule and used, even for 15 minutes, but we haven't been at our best so far so haven't got to the 3-0 up so we can put them on

if we were 1-0 up with 10 to play and rafa brought darby on at RB we'd nearly all go ape, and the madness would go up if we drew. however you have to take a chance, like throwing el zhar on and - i cant remember the game - it can pay off like when he set up a goal. it does however need to be followed up on, unlike plessis who did really well against arsenal then never played again

[PTP]

I see you're falling for the kids myth as well. Apart from Fabregas and Clichy I can't think of any Arsenal youngster that's stood out. Wigan were dreadful, no they were more than dreadful...they were uninterested. Every single player except Kirkland couldn't give a flying f*ck about this game and it showed.

Witness how poorly their latest young protege, Denilson, has been in the league where teams really 'play up the Arsenal'. Stoke and Hull being the examples I quoteth.

wigan were ****e - but bit harsh not include one of the outfield players with kirland, for me there was only one wigan player who genuinely tried and seemed up for it and that was De ridder. - He ran his bollocks off and tried everything he could, and nearly scored what would have been goal of the decade - if about three or four more of the wigan players tried half as hard as he did they would have caused the arsenal kids problems.

[dww]

wigan were ****e - but bit harsh not include one of the outfield players with kirland, for me there was only one wigan player who genuinely tried and seemed up for it and that was De ridder. - He ran his bollocks off and tried everything he could, and nearly scored what would have been goal of the decade - if about three or four more of the wigan players tried half as hard as he did they would have caused the arsenal kids problems.

To be honest from what I saw of the first half and start of the second the Wigan players looked to have felt they would win it easily as a men against boys contest and then found it hard to get up for it when it turned out to be a real game. All credit to the Arsenal team though.

[Chrono]

Never heard of Wilshere. Is he another Pennant ?

Fredo, you are showing your complete ignorance on the subject. You clearly didn't watch this game but as usual you have to play the devil's advocate.

Why bother commenting on a thread you know **** all about?

[Chrono]

I'll give it a shot too:

Fabianski- Very very good keeper who pulled of some very good saves yesterday and rated massively at Arsenal

Djourou- Average. Never in a million years would he get into our 1st team - agreed

Song- Average, never get near our team - agreed

Gibbs- Looks a fantastic talent

Gavin Hoyte- Championship agreed

Randall- Looks outstanding

Ramsay- I don't think the price is relevant but also oustanding

Merida- Looks very good

Simpson- Great young striker

Vela- Outsanding

Wilshire - Oustanding

[PTP]

I can't see what's so special with the Arsenal youngsters. Lots of foreign kids there, just as us. Nothing to see here.

come on - thats unfair, whilst i don't like the way the whole country goes way ott about them and the media cream their pants - they are breath of fresh air to watch in games like that. "Nothing to see here" - i disagree, put it this way, I reckon most of us wouldn't have watched the game last night if it was arsenal first team with say one or two ressies - but i was intrigued to watch them - Wenger fielded a completley different side to one from his premier league squad - the oldest player was the keeper at what 22/23 and an average age of 19, with a 16 yr old winning man of the match!!! -

with regards to being a load of foreigners - Hoyte, Gibbs, Ramsey, Wilshere, Simpson and Randall were all excellent last night. Confident, great passing and composure and suprisingly srong and up for a battle too.

No granted, i was dissapointed in wigan, but you can't take anything away from wenger/the youngsters who played - whether they have come through the arsenal acadamy or been poached from another country is irrelevent to me - they still had a team of youngsters on display.

I would love it for rafa to play (for a qquick arguements sake, i'm sure someone will have a better youth XI)

-------------Martin------------
Darby---Hobbs---San jose----Insua

--Flynn-----Spearing----plessis-----El Zhar

-----------Nemeth-----N'gog---



and for them to go and play against wigan at home and perform like that.

I'm not critisicing rafa, or our kids, we are obv a few years behind arsenal some where, but i wouldn't feel that confident with that side playing against say wigan in the carling cup - so to say there is nothing special or nothing to see there for me is either ignorance or turning a blind due to bias.

[dww]

Fredo, you are showing your complete ignorance on the subject. You clearly didn't watch this game but as usual you have to play the devil's advocate.

Why bother commenting on a thread you know **** all about?

The thing is though that while the point is a little ridiculous as put by Fredo I do seem to remember Pennant looking exceptional scoring a hat trick in one of Arsenals U21 Carling Cup campaigns. The point being that I think people are going over board on individual players when the evidence is minimal as all sorts of things could happen to them over their careers and they could have problems like pennant that were mental rather than about there other talents. The important issue should be how can we emulate a system which does appear to produce a production line of good first team players for a relatively low investment.

[Chrono]

From that team I am sure that Insua and Nemeth are the only two likely to make our first team at any point. I think we have some good younger players coming through but the difference in our youth and Arsenals is massive.

[PTP]

To be honest from what I saw of the first half and start of the second the Wigan players looked to have felt they would win it easily as a men against boys contest and then found it hard to get up for it when it turned out to be a real game. All credit to the Arsenal team though.

totally - wigan were appaling, a horror show - if the played like that in the league they would lose 5-0 every week. If they had put in a proper performance like they are capable of, then it would have been different. as i said, i only saw that de ridder as an outfield player for wigan who actually tried, and he caused problems on his own - if he had just had say 3 other players to help him out wigan would have made it diffiuclt

[Chrono]

The thing is though that while the point is a little ridiculous as put by Fredo I do seem to remember Pennant looking exceptional scoring a hat trick in one of Arsenals U21 Carling Cup campaigns. The point being that I think people are going over board on individual players when the evidence is minimal as all sorts of things could happen to them over their careers and they could have problems like pennant that were mental rather than about there other talents. The important issue should be how can we emulate a system which does appear to produce a production line of good first team players for a relatively low investment.

I take your point on never really knowing where the development of a player will go but for arguments sake you could say that Wilshere turns out like Pennant I think for me it's more a numbers game and the sheer volume of very high quality young players in the Arsenal squad means that purely on a mathematical basis they are more likely to get good players making the grade. I know the Ajax system used to have basically far too many players (which I think is something Rafa is actually trying to put in place) so that the top talent rises to the top and you skim the rest.

At present I would say the bulk of our younger players are very average which is quite sad really.

[PTP]

I'll give it a shot too:

Fabianski- Very very good keeper who pulled of some very good saves yesterday and rated massively at Arsenal

Djourou- Average. Never in a million years would he get into our 1st team - agreed

Song- Average, never get near our team - agreed

Gibbs- Looks a fantastic talent

Gavin Hoyte- Championship agreed

Randall- Looks outstanding

Ramsay- I don't think the price is relevant but also oustanding

Merida- Looks very good

Simpson- Great young striker

Vela- Outsanding

Wilshire - Oustanding

thats a better and a more fair/honest appraisel I don't agree with all the hype and media creaiming themselves over these kids, it's a bit ott and a think as a result of that type of coverage it causes rival fans, like some on here to totally dismiss them and call it a myth etc - which is bollocks. Noone can argue last night that it was great to watch a team of youngsters to play at that level so well, so confident and with smiles on their faces. I actually clapped that third goal, the vela one - sheer genius.

Every other team in the country wishes that could put out there youngsters in the carling cup and see performances like that.

[Woobus]

Why cant they play in the first team for the league cup?

How long has Wilshere been at Arsenal then? He's only 16 mate, it cant have been long, can it? He's had a few chances to play (and shine) for the first team against PL opposition.

Maybe Wenger and Rafa has different thoughts on when the youth should be brought through, its clear Wengers policy isnt working as well as people thought it was a couple of years ago.
Fredo also had a good point we have a lot larger squad and a good game to keep the fringe players match fit.

[blacky]

I read the article and it's speculative and relies on coincidental 'evidence'.
But nobody is saying all those Arsenal kids will become great players, many wont make it. They certainly look at a far more advanced stage of development than ours do though, you cant dispute that.

They stand out. Most kids hold their own at best, but those lads tonight actually outclassed fully established premier league players. That's highly admirable.

Your ignorance blinds you to the facts. Yes Arsenal have a fantastic academy, Yes Wenger has a policy of giving youth a chance in the cups but ask yourself what has he won since fully envoking this policy. **** all.

[red g]

the wigan players also looked twice the size of the Arsenal lads, I am sure the likes of stoke would chew them up and spit them out. Classic Arsenal team if you ask me, look great to watch and that wilshere and Vela look cracking players who i am sure will make it but would love to see some of the others in the heart of a battle.

We have been talking about arsenals yoof for years and they still flatter to decieve. Every year one of the red tops will publish a glowing tribute about how great they are.....i await in anticipation