Kids ?

[The Birdman]

I didn't watch the game so I'm not going to comment on that but Wenger is on record saying he has had this group of players affiliated to Arsenal from a very young age so they have all had 8 to 10 years being trained the 'Arsenal way' they have played together and have progressed through the ages as a group.
If Rafa had total control of the academy from now and stays for another 10 years we'd see the same things here, young kids brought in then getting consistancy of training methods and philosophy through their formulative, developing years.
It's called sticking with your manager, backing him 100% and giving him complete control over the club.

The point still stands though, very few of the fabled Arsenal youngsters break through to be 1st team regulars, most leave and struggle elsewhere, like the majority of kids at virtually all clubs at all levels.

[dww]

I take your point on never really knowing where the development of a player will go but for arguments sake you could say that Wilshere turns out like Pennant I think for me it's more a numbers game and the sheer volume of very high quality young players in the Arsenal squad means that purely on a mathematical basis they are more likely to get good players making the grade. I know the Ajax system used to have basically far too many players (which I think is something Rafa is actually trying to put in place) so that the top talent rises to the top and you skim the rest.

At present I would say the bulk of our younger players are very average which is quite sad really.

I'd agree with that but I think Rafa needs to bite the bullet and play more of the reserves in the likes of the league cup as part of the filtering process. I know in the last few years Wenger has done less of this presumably as he had less faith in the youth he had than previously but he had established a track record by then. We may soon face a situation where players don't want to come to us, the likes of Merida have already shown a preference for Arsenal over us.

On a related note I think that one of the things Wenger has talked about is collective responsibility. I think that works well to build a team but the problem is when the chips are down individual players need to step up. I think that Wengers methods tend to breed players who aren't so prepared to do this which is why all his captains have been either developed before he got to Arsenal or bought in.

[Reece]

I didn't watch the game so I'm not going to comment on that but Wenger is on record saying he has had this group of players affiliated to Arsenal from a very young age so they have all had 8 to 10 years being trained the 'Arsenal way' they have played together and have progressed through the ages as a group.

Vela and Ramsey were signed in the summer no? And Song is also a recent acquisition isn't he? That's not a dig at you mate just asking.

[Shaggy]

Nah Vela's been on their books for ages.

[Reece]

Nah Vela's been on their books for ages.

I'm sure someone said in the Carling Cup thread last night that he was really good in La Liga last season. Am I completely imagining things?

[PTP]

Vela and Ramsey were signed in the summer no? And Song is also a recent acquisition isn't he? That's not a dig at you mate just asking.

i think i heard they signed vela three years ago, but he couldn't get a work permit so went out on loan until it was sorted.

Still tho, if nemeth, n'gog, pacheco or anyone other than torres/gerrard scored a goal like his last night we would be creaming our pants whether he came from the acadmy or was paoched for a squillion pound from mars

[Reece]

i think i heard they signed vela three years ago, but he couldn't get a work permit so went out on loan until it was sorted.

Still tho, if nemeth, n'gog, pacheco or anyone other than torres/gerrard scored a goal like his last night we would be creaming our pants whether he came from the acadmy or was paoched for a squillion pound from mars

Ah that might explain it

Agree on the second point too, and wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.

[PTP]

Ah that might explain it

Agree on the second point too, and wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.

i wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting otherwise. just warming up for battle mode

[Reece]

i wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting otherwise. just warming up for battle mode

lulz

[dww]

Vela and Ramsey were signed in the summer no? And Song is also a recent acquisition isn't he? That's not a dig at you mate just asking.

Song has been there ages too. Been loaned out to Charlton as well. In his first season he briefly formed the worlds worst CM partnership with Diaby. To be fair both seem to have progressed since then.

[The Birdman]

Vela and Ramsey were signed in the summer no? And Song is also a recent acquisition isn't he? That's not a dig at you mate just asking.

Yeah Ramsey was signed in the summer for 5 million, 5 million for someone who didn't start 25 league games for Cardiff.
I'm not knocking him, it's obvious he is a talented player but we can't pay 5 mill for someone that inexperienced then allow him 2,3,4 years to fully develop into a 1st team regular.
Denillson was 7 mill I think, Walcott 9 mill and even if those figures are wrong the point is Wenger knows he has the time and backing to bring these kids through, buy some of the best ones at inflated rates then mix them into a team.
I'm not knocking that either, it's their philosophy.
I'd rather have a great youth set up and win trophies at 1st team level but if I can't have both give me 1st team success every day of the week.

[Reece]

Cheers for the insight guys, I now feel a little more informed on the situation

[Craig_H]

Your ignorance blinds you to the facts. Yes Arsenal have a fantastic academy, Yes Wenger has a policy of giving youth a chance in the cups but ask yourself what has he won since fully envoking this policy. **** all.

Wenger winning nothing has zero to do with his youth policy. I think you're missing the point of developing young kids.

[MrMichael]

Wenger winning nothing has zero to do with his youth policy. I think you're missing the point of developing young kids.

Well, the point ultimately in football is winning isn't it? If you're going to be pedantic like......

[Guest]

Wenger winning nothing has zero to do with his youth policy. I think you're missing the point of developing young kids.

What's the point of developing young kids if it doesn't help the team in a 'collective' sense afterwards?

Case in point, in France Nantes is renowned for their world class youth policy and their ability to churn out top class youngsters but they haven't won anything for ages.

Having a great youth policy yes, but it has to be done in the right way. If a kid is good enough by our own standards, he'll make it to the top. In Arsenal's case, Wenger is justifying his youth policy by playing them early in the Carling cup because he can't do it in the league because they aren't good enough.