Sack Rafa, Fergie, Scolari and Wenger

[Sarb]

I have my doubts, but at the end of the day, you cannot possibly be seriously wanting him out, that's absurd.

We've ballsed up a few games, done better than expected in others and overall, we're in a good position.

My stance is that i think some of Rafa's 'shortcomings' will cost us the league, but i'm very much in the 'hope im wrong and we win the league' camp with that one. I certainly dont want him sacked and i'm hopeful that he'll deliver, whilst realising what an achievement it is in the first place that i'm even thinking realistically about us winning the title.

If his methods end up costing us, i'll be gutted but as that hasnt happened yet, i'm certainly behind him.

Having some doubts is one thing, i have them too. But how can you want him sacked with LFC sitting top of the league? Dont understand that.

If someone fails, then fair enough but at the moment he's succeeding and yet, whilst he's succeeding, you want him sacked? Really odd mate.

Craig, I don't think he wants Rafa sacked this instant. He's said if we don't win the Premiership then he should be sacked. I think it's fair enough mate. I don't think he should be sacked now. I don't think he's got what it takes to win the Prem at all, but that doesn't mean I want him out right now. I'd like to be proved wrong by Rafa, but I just don't see it.

And if we don't win the Prem or get damn close then he should go imo.

[rage]

what would u consider the minimum to be this season craig?

[Craig_H]

[/B]
i didn't say now i said (or at least meant) end of the season. and i'll judge success on winning the league, second means nothing improvement or not

It came across as if you've already decided you want him gone.

And if we finish 2nd, having contested the title properly til the end, then he shouldnt be sacked.

what would u consider the minimum to be this season craig?

A proper title challenge which, whether we win it or not, puts us firmly in the bracket of genuine & consistent contenders for next season and beyond.

Craig, I don't think he wants Rafa sacked this instant. He's said if we don't win the Premiership then he should be sacked. I think it's fair enough mate. I don't think he should be sacked now. I don't think he's got what it takes to win the Prem at all, but that doesn't mean I want him out right now. I'd like to be proved wrong by Rafa, but I just don't see it.

And if we don't win the Prem or get damn close then he should go imo.

We have to contest it, for me.

All four of the 'big four' can be brilliant, but there's only one 1st place. We have to be looking as good as the others, give or take a couple of points. If we lose out, but it ends up in the situation where it could've gone either way, that's fine with me.

[Sarb]

It came across as if you've already decided you want him gone.

And if we finish 2nd, having contested the title properly til the end, then he shouldnt be sacked.

Craig, don't want this to turn into an argument

But why shouldn't he be sacked? Won't it have been enough time, won't he have been backed enough?

[Craig_H]

Craig, don't want this to turn into an argument

But why shouldn't he be sacked? Won't it have been enough time, won't he have been backed enough?

Simply because there's only one team who can win it and four who are capable.

I dont think you can categorically say "well 5 years is the right amount of time", it's not that simple, there's too many external factors which mess up the simplicity of that.

If he does everything right on his side of the bargain and it doesnt happen, that's football. If we fail BECAUSE of his mistakes, and dont really come close, that's different.

[Sarb]

Simply because there's only one team who can win it and four who are capable.

If he does everything right on his side of the bargain and it doesnt happen, that's football. If we fail BECAUSE of his mistakes, and dont really come close, that's different.

So say we lost by two points, then isn't that down to his mistakes?

[Craig_H]

So say we lost by two points, then isn't that down to his mistakes?

Not necessarily. He can pick the right team and tactics, and the players can have a mare with their finishing.

Missing out by 2 points means we're good enough, but it just didnt go for us.

If he's got us to the stage where we're good enough, ditching him would be counter productive.

As i say, if we finish this season in a position where we're looking like we're finally in that group of genuine contenders for a sustained period, then i'm fine for him to stay and keep working.

The first key thing for me, is to be PROPER title contenders. Then it's to be proper title contenders consistently, season in, season out.

If that happens, then we'll win it, one year or another.

[red g]

So say we lost by two points, then isn't that down to his mistakes?

i would argue that he got within 2 points down to his brilliance

[Sarb]

Not necessarily. He can pick the right team and tactics, and the players can have a mare with their finishing.

Missing out by 2 points means we're good enough, but it just didnt go for us.

If he's got us to the stage where we're good enough, ditching him would be counter productive.

As i say, if we finish this season in a position where we're looking like we're finally in that group of genuine contenders for a sustained period, then i'm fine for him to stay and keep working.

Fair enough. I just don't think he has the right mentality to win the Prem. I see some shades of Houllier in him to be honest and his constant tinkering with players, formations costs us many points in a season. Don't ever see that changing

If we give him another season then he should not be given any more money to spend. Should have to generate it himself from player sales

[Craig_H]

2 points is nothing, over the course of 38 games. It's a poor refereeing decision, or one missed chance at a crucial stage. Rafa cant really legislate for that.

If he gets to within 2 points, it'll simply have been a case where the title could've gone either way and it just didnt go ours. Not his fault.

[Sarb]

i would argue that he got within 2 points down to his brilliance

There's the difference. I'd be gutted if we don't win the Prem based on how indifferent MAncs and Chavs have been this season

[Craig_H]

Fair enough. I just don't think he has the right mentality to win the Prem. I see some shades of Houllier in him to be honest and his constant tinkering with players, formations costs us many points in a season. Don't ever see that changing

If we give him another season then he should not be given any more money to spend. Should have to generate it himself from player sales

I'm not convinced he has the mentality either, but if he comes THAT close, i'd argue he does have it, and you could put it down to one tiny thing not going for us. If that happened, my conclusion wouldnt be that rafa doesnt have it in him, it'd be that he does, and a very fine margin cost us.

If a team finishes 2 points off winning it, i dont think you can argue that they arent a team capable of winning the title.

Not giving him money would be stupid. It indicates that his signings have been predominantly bad, which isnt the case at all.

[red g]

There's the difference. I'd be gutted if we don't win the Prem based on how indifferent MAncs and Chavs have been this season

i would be gutted to, but you would say its down to losing 2pts at home to stoke, but then we wouldnt have been in that position if we didnt beat Chelsea and get a fantastic result and i would look more to the fact that we have hardly had torres so far as a reason, something out of rafa's control

[Sarb]

I'm not convinced he has the mentality either, but if he comes THAT close, i'd argue he does have it, and you could put it down to one tiny thing not going for us. If that happened, my conclusion wouldnt be that rafa doesnt have it in him, it'd be that he does, and a very fine margin cost us.

If a team finishes 2 points off winning it, i dont think you can argue that they arent a team capable of winning the title.

Not giving him money would be stupid. It indicates that his signings have been predominantly bad, which isnt the case at all.

Had a debate with my boss about this today. If in your job you moaned about not being able to buy an asset vital to your business and you went public with it, eventually getting the money, but then not bothering to use the asset and you ****ed up come the end, would you still be in the job or not?

I don't think you would. That's why he shouldn't get the money to spend. He's invested plenty in the first team squad and youth team/reserves. Nows the time to see the end result, not to keep spending

[Sarb]

i would be gutted to, but you would say its down to losing 2pts at home to stoke, but then we wouldnt have been in that position if we didnt beat Chelsea and get a fantastic result and i would look more to the fact that we have hardly had torres so far as a reason, something out of rafa's control

Can't use Torres as an excuse. Not even Chelsea have a top two on whom they've spent £40m plus