Rafa has taken us as far as he can.

[Elvoz]

I think we should be going for someone who could play exciting football while challenging. I can't remember the last time we had a decent footballing side apart from the odd game

as i have said time and time again
i cant remember the last time i left anfield talking about what a great game i,d seen - that is not good enough

[Mark3]

The problem is that H&G thinks that the fans will be on there backs if they sack Rafa so they will do nothing. This SOS mass meeting on Saturday will be taken by them as a "back the manager" meeting further enforcing this view unfortunately. Get used to it. This is going to be the same for a few more seasons yet. We will still have people saying "next season" five years from now. I am not even dissapointed about yesterday. was expecting it really. was actually devoid of emotion when they scored.

Totally agree about Mourinho though (even though I absolutely hated him before). He will definitely win us the league even with this same squad IMO.

(Lurker de-cloaks for the first time in months...)

Not convinced about Moaning Maureeenio. His tactics and style of play during his last 18 months didn't exite me much. Good at grinding out results, mostly.

I think some perspective is needed about Rafa.

Forget comparisons with Ferguson et al and look at Bill Shankly's record - promotion from 2nd Div, Lge, Cup, Lge but then nothing for 7 years. And I don't remember cries of "Shankly must go!" in the late 60s and early 70s before the next title was won in 1973.

Rafa is 5 years into rebuilding and developing his team, on a budget that has been much below his rivals. As with all managers, some players brought in fail to perform, others can exceed expectations. But look where we are - competing in 3 competitions with the chance to win all three (still).

The time to consider if Rafa is the man to take us further will be after the end of the season, and after the ownership and finances have been sorted. Until then we need to back the team and believe. Istanbul 2005 holds a very pertinent lesson for us all.

(with hope in his heart, lurker re-cloaks and settles down to watch and listen for a while..)

[Reece]

(Lurker de-cloaks for the first time in months...)

Not convinced about Moaning Maureeenio. His tactics and style of play during his last 18 months didn't exite me much. Good at grinding out results, mostly.

I think some perspective is needed about Rafa.

Forget comparisons with Ferguson et al and look at Bill Shankly's record - promotion from 2nd Div, Lge, Cup, Lge but then nothing for 7 years. And I don't remember cries of "Shankly must go!" in the late 60s and early 70s before the next title was won in 1973.

Rafa is 5 years into rebuilding and developing his team, on a budget that has been much below his rivals. As with all managers, some players brought in fail to perform, others can exceed expectations. But look where we are - competing in 3 competitions with the chance to win all three (still).

The time to consider if Rafa is the man to take us further will be after the end of the season, and after the ownership and finances have been sorted. Until then we need to back the team and believe. Istanbul 2005 holds a very pertinent lesson for us all.

(with hope in his heart, lurker re-cloaks and settles down to watch and listen for a while..)

Whether everyone will agree with your opinion doesn't matter, because that is a well written post. You should post more lurker

[Joe Le Toff]

I thought in a few very brief patches we played some really good football last night.
I thought Mascherano played the best ive seen him in a long while, Torres looks like hes getting sharper with every game.
The problem as i see it, is that without a shadow of a doubt Rafa gets the team to drop back 20-30 yards after we score and as a consequence, our tempo drops too and as we've seen all too often it lets teams back in the game who havent had a kick for an hour.
You could see Wigan gaining in confidence as we dropped further and back and our build-up went back to being too methodical and at walking pace.
I dont understand how after all these years Rafa thinks that 1-0 is going to be enough in this league and we never seem to maintain the same tempo or urgency to our game looking for the second goal.
As for the substitution of Gerrard after they scored, i was aghast and yet not surprised at the same time if thats possible, theres been so many decisions like this from Rafa that theyre never that unexpected any more.
In my opinion, the Stoke away game was the watershed for this season just like Reading away was last season. Every year Rafa seems to almost lose his marbles halfway through the season and seems to make the most ludicrous decisions that knocks the team out of their stride and by the time we recover the leagues gone yet again.
Quite honestly, id take 4th now if we were offered it because the way Villa are getting results at the moment its no foregone conclusion we'll get it if this run of form continues much longer.

[Skillz]

I really believe he has a plan. He's just trying to do it his tried and tested, albeit in a different league, methods. Just like Fergie did during his first, and barren, seven years.

He's intelligent, very well respected by some of the key figures in the football world and passionate about Liverpool the city, the football team, the culture and history.

He's undeserving of a large percentage of the comments and uneducated opinions on here. I'm finding it hard, but I can't do anything other than have belief in him and watch and hope that he gets it right.

He's Our manager, he's a winner and a legend, as far as i'm concerned. Obviously.

Agreed in full

[Havors]

Sack him! Play your best team win the game then rest players like Fergerson and Mourinho did.

[barnes10]

im pissed off at rafa for losing focus on our title run in. i know the guy's been in hospital but he never allows us to batter teams. our finishing is shyte because of the strikers he selects. admittedly robbie keane has dug his own grave by being a prick in front of goal. some of his decision making has been awful.

however, i do not want to see rafa leave and that POS rick parry remain. His failure to seal the deals means rafa is constantly unable to field the teams he'd have wanted to.

Back him or sack him you c~$%sucker.

what a sh1t mess our club is in again.

[iceman23]

(Lurker de-cloaks for the first time in months...)

Not convinced about Moaning Maureeenio. His tactics and style of play during his last 18 months didn't exite me much. Good at grinding out results, mostly.

I think some perspective is needed about Rafa.

Forget comparisons with Ferguson et al and look at Bill Shankly's record - promotion from 2nd Div, Lge, Cup, Lge but then nothing for 7 years. And I don't remember cries of "Shankly must go!" in the late 60s and early 70s before the next title was won in 1973.

Rafa is 5 years into rebuilding and developing his team, on a budget that has been much below his rivals. As with all managers, some players brought in fail to perform, others can exceed expectations. But look where we are - competing in 3 competitions with the chance to win all three (still).

The time to consider if Rafa is the man to take us further will be after the end of the season, and after the ownership and finances have been sorted. Until then we need to back the team and believe. Istanbul 2005 holds a very pertinent lesson for us all.

(with hope in his heart, lurker re-cloaks and settles down to watch and listen for a while..)

I would absolutely love it if he turns this around and wins the league. I am not anti-rafa in any way but I just have objectively come to the conclusion that he will not win us the league. This isn't because of his signings but more because of the tactics. We seem to play better when we are behind and tactics go out the window.=

As I said I would love to be proven wrong but I don't think I will, not now or not in 10 years. Rafa believes his methods are right and will not change it. As someone said earlier:

Rafa would rather lose it his way than win it any other way.

So from now I have no expectations so I will suffer no dissapointments...

[barnes10]

I would absolutely love it if he turns this around and wins the league. I am not anti-rafa in any way but I just have objectively come to the conclusion that he will not win us the league. This isn't because of his signings but more because of the tactics. We seem to play better when we are behind and tactics go out the window.=

As I said I would love to be proven wrong but I don't think I will, not now or not in 10 years. Rafa believes his methods are right and will not change it. As someone said earlier:

Rafa would rather lose it his way than win it any other way.

So from now I have no expectations so I will suffer no dissapointments...

disagree on the tactics thing. Rafa sets us up tactically to beat the opposition we face in the prem.

generally this season, we're battering teams which means from the goal through to midfield, we're awesome and tactically very well set up.

our problem is being clinical. if rafa cant get the players he wants then how do we know how clinical we'd have been otherwise? Did we miss out on silva? would the barry, gerrard, torres and keane in 1 team have been more effective and clinical? we don't know

this is all an unknown, so too is how we'd have done in the past - or in the 06 CL final with alvez, vidic and simao in the lineup.

in my mind, all he's guilty of is not being able to win the premiership against man u and chelsea with a squad made up of players that he would have not have otherwise chosen were the club able to seal the deals.

[kop-al-74]

tbf he is a edited

Where's you're thread gone?

[the rev leeroy brown]

Teamtalk man talks sense

TEAMtalk Tirade: Rafa will never rule
TEAMtalk Editor Simon Wilkes feels Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez is far too defensive a manager to ever lift the Premier League trophy.

Benitez: Needs to let Reds off the leash Send to friend


Liverpool will not win the Premier League title this season for one reason only - Rafael Benitez.

The Spaniard appeared to have steered the Reds into a strong position for a serious challenge to champions Manchester United's throne following a ruthless 5-1 demolition of Newcastle at St James' Park in December.

But then came 'Factgate', which saw Benitez launch a staggering attack on Sir Alex Ferguson, accusing the Red Devils gaffer of getting away with murder when it came to criticising officials.

Opinion was divided on the Reds chief's outburst, with some claiming it needed to be said, but it's fair to say everyone was baffled by the timing of his blast - and it clearly stumped the Liverpool players, who had previosuly been receiving plaudits aplenty for their marauding, goal-laden football.

Benitez's rant came ahead of an Anfield showdown with battling Stoke, and a team who had put three past Bolton and five past the Magpies suddenly looked a shadow of themselves and were held to a dour 0-0 draw.

Liverpool have recently been boosted by the return to full fitness of Fernando Torres, but that has barely got a mention as the spotlight has remained firmly on Benitez following his shambolic handling of £20million signing Robbie Keane since his arrival on Merseyside.

Liverpool fans must have been licking their lips at the prospect of Keane and Torres terrorising top-flight defences with their pace, verve and skill.

But Irish star Keane, a proven Premier League goal-poacher who thrives on confidence, has had all his belief drained from him by his new boss.

The Reds could arguably have their own 'Fantastic Four' under an attack-minded manager, who would surely try to integrate Gerrard, Riera, Keane and Torres into the same team - much in the way Ferguson fields the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and Ronaldo if he has them all fully fit.

With two of the best holding midfielders in world football on the club's books in Javier Mascherano and Xabi Alonso, this is not an outlandish proposal.

But on Wednesday night, Torres played as a lone frontman with Keane once again twiddling his thumbs on the bench.

This defensive tactic ultimately came home to roost as Steve Bruce's Latics earned a late penalty, which was coolly converted by Mido.

That led to the frantic introduction of Keane, for Gerrard of all people, with six minutes but it was too little, too late - and I'm sure a nice bottle of red wine was winging its way up to the JJB Stadium from Old Trafford.

Liverpool have lost their way at exactly the wrong time, drawing their last three league games at a time when United have clicked into top gear and recorded six wins on the trot.

Benitez will argue they're still serious contenders, especially if they beat second-placed Chelsea at Anfield this weekend.

But until the Spaniard lets Keane off the leash and realises attack is the best form of defence in this division, he will never be crowned King of England.

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_4868383,00.html

[Chrono]

disagree on the tactics thing. Rafa sets us up tactically to beat the opposition we face in the prem.

generally this season, we're battering teams which means from the goal through to midfield, we're awesome and tactically very well set up.

our problem is being clinical. if rafa cant get the players he wants then how do we know how clinical we'd have been otherwise? Did we miss out on silva? would the barry, gerrard, torres and keane in 1 team have been more effective and clinical? we don't know

this is all an unknown, so too is how we'd have done in the past - or in the 06 CL final with alvez, vidic and simao in the lineup.

in my mind, all he's guilty of is not being able to win the premiership against man u and chelsea with a squad made up of players that he would have not have otherwise chosen were the club able to seal the deals.

How come Martin O'Neil can get so much more from a squad with half the quality of ours that he has had even less money and time to develop. Our squad is fantastic and from the players he has we must be doing better.

In addition to this Rafa has spent plenty of money and all managers miss out on one or two targets. That's life.

[iceman23]

disagree on the tactics thing. Rafa sets us up tactically to beat the opposition we face in the prem.

generally this season, we're battering teams which means from the goal through to midfield, we're awesome and tactically very well set up.

our problem is being clinical. if rafa cant get the players he wants then how do we know how clinical we'd have been otherwise? Did we miss out on silva? would the barry, gerrard, torres and keane in 1 team have been more effective and clinical? we don't know

this is all an unknown, so too is how we'd have done in the past - or in the 06 CL final with alvez, vidic and simao in the lineup.

in my mind, all he's guilty of is not being able to win the premiership against man u and chelsea with a squad made up of players that he would have not have otherwise chosen were the club able to seal the deals.

Thats the great thing about football. I know exactly where you are coming from but I don't agree. I believe the team we have should beat 90 percent of teams in this league. I dont expect us to because you do have the odd day and sometimes teams luck just doesn't go your way but our team and squad is superior to most other teams in the league.

My belief is that our primary concern is not to lose which is not a bad thing at all when looked at in isolation. It becomes a problem though when it is to the detriment of our attacking games which I sometimes believe it is. Maybe I am being simple but perhaps at some point and I know it is an old cliche but maybe should let the opposition worry about us for a change and not the other way around.

I can remember screaming for our full backs to get forward and provide width sometimes this season but you could see that they just wouldn't pass the half way line. It is not that they couldn't (because they did it in the previous game) but it was definite that they were under instruction not to (I think Insua hinted at this in one of his interviews). I cant prove this but I am 99% sure about it.

But onwards and upwards - lets enjoy the rest of the season and see what happens. One thing I would love Rafa to do for the rest of the season is: Take a chance once in a while.

[Chrono]

Thats the great thing about football. I know exactly where you are coming from but I don't agree. I believe the team we have should beat 90 percent of teams in this league. I dont expect us to because you do have the odd day and sometimes teams luck just doesn't go your way but our team and squad is superior to most other teams in the league.

My belief is that our primary concern is not to lose which is not a bad thing at all when looked at in isolation. It becomes a problem though when it is to the detriment of our attacking games which I sometimes believe it is. Maybe I am being simple but perhaps at some point and I know it is an old cliche but maybe should let the opposition worry about us for a change and not the other way around.

I can remember screaming for our full backs to get forward and provide width sometimes this season but you could see that they just wouldn't pass the half way line. It is not that they couldn't (because they did it in the previous game) but it was definite that they were under instruction not to (I think Insua hinted at this in one of his interviews). I cant prove this but I am 99% sure about it.

But onwards and upwards - lets enjoy the rest of the season and see what happens. One thing I would love Rafa to do for the rest of the season is: Take a chance once in a while.

You should post more often.

Complete agree with everything you have said, it's so frustrating that Rafa wont just trust his players to not just fit his tactics but make good decisions, Rafa is almost like the anti-Roy Evans. No flair but extremely hard to beat and concede very few goals.

[Rich]

I do think the tipping point has been reached here with Rafa.

Its never even entered my head that Rafa wasn't the right man for the job but now I'm not too sure.

It is VITAL we now get out of the doldrums and go on a long winning streak; we also will now need to go to Old Trafford and WIN.

You have to wonder how long Rafa will keep the dressing room together if we continue in this form. You'll have Keane's miserable face in one corner; Gerrard always sulks, and you'll have Babel upsetting people elsewhere in the dressing room.

Tough times.