What now for Parry...and Rafa?

[redstaralex]

keane was given the same if not more chances than Kuyt or Crouch but he didn't do himself any favours, he's just not disciplined enough, getting rid of a player not up to scratch now is a fine move in my eyes and has the added bonus of letting the team get on with playing instead of being constantly asked about Keane and why he is / isn't playing

[Cormack74]

and then we get to parry, rafa and keane. How pathetically embarrassing. Its pretty much clear to anyone with any sense that keane ended up being a pawn in the game. Only a fool would believe that parry simply went out and decided to buy keane without consulting rafa first. Thats ridiculous. Rafa obviously had a few players on his hit list and keane was one of them, but it would appear that he was clearly second on the list behind barry. It would appear that rafa was happy to offload alonso in the hope of using the funds raised in addition to the cash provided by the board to purchase both barry and keane. Alonso's deal didnt happen and so we were left with a choice of barry or keane and it seems as though parry and the board went over rafa and bought keane. That was ridiculous. Parry and the owners are to blame. But rafa is hardly in the clear. Its obvious that he rated keane as a player and wanted him with us. But as very good a manager rafa is, he is also a stubborn man. Overly stubborn. Crouch went months without scoring and deadly dirk has hardly set the world alight with his scoring record, yet rafa continued to play them and stuck by them. Yet keane, although he struggled for form, was never given anywhere near the same level of support. Even when he did score he would be dropped. He was often taken off early when he did start. Purely because rafa wanted to show parry who was boss. And it has worked. He has got his way. In a way, i am glad as i think rafa should never have been overruled by parry and rafa should have the final say in transfers, within reason. But the way rafa has gone about it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. We wasted keane while he was here and now have lost millions in the process and are also a striker down. God help us if nando should get injured. Well done to all you, the yanks, parry and rafa. What a sorry state of affairs.

I'm fairly certain that you make some interesting observations, but inserting the odd paragraph would make it easier for me to be sure.

[Tatterdemalion]

Has anyone else noticed how Mark Lawrenson managed to be right, but is such a plank that he has had to apologise for it?

[nineteen]

I don't think so. I think that the battle for control is over the fact that he saw Keane as being pointless on his own. He had an idea of selling Alonso, buying Barry to play on the left, buying Keane to play behind Torres, and moving Gerrard alongside Mascher. So you sell one top class player to bring two in that will improve the balance of the squad.

If you don't sign Barry though (and sell Alonso to raise the necessary cash) then there's no point buying Keane. He went through Parry, giving him a list of targets as instructed, and Parry did 1/3 of the job and wasted 20m, that Rafa would have spent elsewhere if he'd known that Barry wasn't coming and Alonso wasn't going.

It's not about having total control, it's about the manager making the decisions about who comes and goes within a budget, rather than giving someone who has no idea about the balance of a squad, and the tactics the manager has in mind, complete control over buying and selling from a shortlist. Rafa's new deal will still involve him approving all purchases through the board, it will just give him a more hands on role, so that he doesn't end up with square pegs to fit into round holes if all the deals don't go as planned.

Keane wasn't sold because Rafa wants to prove a petty point. He was sold because in our best system of play it comes down to a choice between him and Gerrard, and there's only one winner. Also because he's not performed when he's been given his chance in any case. He'd never play on his own up front, so it's not as if he was ever really a back up for Torres anyway. The only way his going will impact on us is if we have two or three injuries amongst our attacking players, including Torres, or if he scores the winner against us on the last day of the season.

The most sensible summation of events I've read on here, and one I strongly agree with. It's fairly obvious to me that Parry doesn't understand Rafa's plan and therefore has to leave. I cannot understand why our manager has to go through RP when acquiring players. Surely the board gives Rafa his budget and it's then up to him to do get them to the table. The scenario above a clear example of how the shortlist doesn't work, if all the pieces aren't acquired then the jigsaw never gets completed. Give Rafa control of the football affairs.

[memzey]

So Rafa should give up on a proven Prem striker after half a season of not even playing every game? Hell, i've even heard Rafa say before that player sometimes take time to bed in. Keane was taken off during most games and not given the same chance others like Crouch and Dirk have been. Crouch was bought for one reason - to score goals. He didn't score for ages but was shown patience and support, whereas Robbie wa shown the door. Which is exactly what Dirk should have been shown a long time ago. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of Keane and didn't want him here in the first place. Look at Dossena. That man has been utter ****e. Is there anybody crazy enough out there to admit that Dossena has done a better job than Keane? Come on. Yet Dossena is still here and Rafa has stated clearly that he is going nowhere. Keane has been pushed out for political reasons. I'm glad Rafa is now in charge of transfers as opposed to the idiot that is Parry, but i'm frankly embarrassed about the way the whole thing has been conducted. It's a joke.

But Crouch was bought for much more than JUST goals. He was brought in to support our pattern of play and provide alternative, effective options. Whether he scored them or someone else did didn't matter for him and didn't matter for Keane either. The fact was that Crouchy delivered in that respect but Keane did not. And he didn't score himself either to boot, although I never expected him to score that much. You call him a proven prem goal scorer but I don't think he's ever scored more than 15 in a season, and that only once (could be wrong tho)?

Agree with you on Dossena though. Apart from a good cross and being quite fast for a fat bloke, he scares me every time he plays.

keane was given the same if not more chances than Kuyt or Crouch but he didn't do himself any favours, he's just not disciplined enough, getting rid of a player not up to scratch now is a fine move in my eyes and has the added bonus of letting the team get on with playing instead of being constantly asked about Keane and why he is / isn't playing

Agree 100%

Also agree with Calvoboy's comments.

[Baldemort]

I'm fairly certain that you make some interesting observations, but inserting the odd paragraph would make it easier for me to be sure.

haha! It's hard to post with grammatical precision when you're posting from your phone iat work. Takes too long. That's why I do't always bother with apostrophes etc. It takes too long on my phone.

[Cormack74]

haha! It's hard to post with grammatical precision when you're posting from your phone iat work. Takes too long. That's why I do't always bother with apostrophes etc. It takes too long on my phone.

Apologies mate. This technophobe had never even considered the possibility that people contribute to this by phone. Sounds like a heck of a lot of one finger typing.

[Baldemort]

Apologies mate. This technophobe had never even considered the possibility that people contribute to this by phone. Sounds like a heck of a lot of one finger typing.

No need to apologise, my friend! It's not too bad once you get used to it, it's just much more time consuming than using a regular computer.

[Baldemort]

But Crouch was bought for much more than JUST goals. He was brought in to support our pattern of play and provide alternative, effective options. Whether he scored them or someone else did didn't matter for him and didn't matter for Keane either. The fact was that Crouchy delivered in that respect but Keane did not. And he didn't score himself either to boot, although I never expected him to score that much. You call him a proven prem goal scorer but I don't think he's ever scored more than 15 in a season, and that only once (could be wrong tho)?

Agree with you on Dossena though. Apart from a good cross and being quite fast for a fat bloke, he scares me every time he plays.

Keane's record was as follows in the Prem
2003/04 31 starts 14 goals 5 assists
2004/05 23 starts 12 goals 3 assists
05/06 25 starts 16 goals 3 assists
06/07 18 starts 11 goals 3 assists
07/08 31 starts 15 goals 3 assists

I'd say that's pretty good. A regular performer.

Crouch was a good player and I was sad to see him go. I totally agree with you regarding other aspects of his play too, something that was often overlooked. But, and i'm sure many will disagree with me here, I think Keane offered that also. Maybe not as much as he should have for us, but his clever little runs and his work rate and passing were pretty good.

During his 6 months of irregular starts and early subs, he managed 5 goals (not great) but 4 assists. 4 assists showed that he offered more than just goals. Now i'm not saying that that's good enough to keep him in a job in the long run, but it's more than enough to suggest that he should have been given longer to settle, especially when you consider his record prior to joining us. If Dossena can be given time by Rafa, then surely Keane should have been too. I believe that if Keane had been pursued by Rafa as his number one target and purchased exactly as he wanted him to have been, that Keane would have been given an awful lot longer than a paltry 6 months.

[memzey]

Like I said, football is a game of opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs

In my opinion Keane was given plenty of opportunities to prove he has what it takes to play for LFC, on the playing field and on the training pitch. Where he let himself down was in his lack of contribution when he wasn't scoring or threatening the opposition goal. That's what gets Kuyt and Crouch games even when they are in a barren run in front of goal. That and good attitude and game intelligence. RK was clearly (IMHO) lacking in both of those.

Blaming Rafa is pointless as he hardly instructed Keane to go out and play **** (which is what he did almost every time he played).

I think on top of that, the main and most damning indictment of Keanes' tenure at LFC has been the reaction of the other players. No one has even made a peep of support for him and Stevie even went so far as to stake his claim for Keane's position in at least one post match interview. These guys see him day in day out and judging by what has (or has not) been said by them on this topic, I think it was an open secret that he just wasn't up to the task of playing for LFC.

[Baldemort]

Do you not think it's a little different with Keane as he has barely been at the club hasn't he? If there were problems with Keane and Rafa with the politics going on, it would be clear to the rest of the team that things weren't right. As a team member you are watching Keane being shoved out of the door, so you know just what Rafa can do when he wants to, so it's hardly likely that squad players are going to risk the wrath of Rafa. Also, if you know he is on his way out, why **** up the morale of the team for the rest of the season? I'm not surprised in the slightest that nobody said a thing. The same thing happens in workplaces up and down the country when people are unfairly treated at work, but nobody says a thing in fear of repercussions from the boss. If you know Rafa wants the guy out, like hell would you cross Rafa by supporting Keane.

[memzey]

If that is the case then it must have been an open secret amongst the squad (skwad) all season long, as there has never been a convincing show of support for him. Stevie saying he loved partnering Torres and that it was his best position happened in the first quarter of the season, before Nando was injured.

If that is the case then it's doubly justified that he has to go as the manager had no faith in him and didn't want him. And still, when he was given the chance to prove people wrong (about 28 times all told) he failed miserably to do so.

I am glad that he has gone. I was hopeful when he signed but it became apparent pretty soon that he wasn't of LFC calibre and couldn't adapt to our pattern of play. Given this scenario, getting rid of him for the maximum amount of money and as quickly as possible should always have been our priority. Well done to all involved for at least sorting that out

[red g]

Keane's record was as follows in the Prem
2003/04 31 starts 14 goals 5 assists
2004/05 23 starts 12 goals 3 assists
05/06 25 starts 16 goals 3 assists
06/07 18 starts 11 goals 3 assists
07/08 31 starts 15 goals 3 assists

I'd say that's pretty good. A regular performer.

Crouch was a good player and I was sad to see him go. I totally agree with you regarding other aspects of his play too, something that was often overlooked. But, and i'm sure many will disagree with me here, I think Keane offered that also. Maybe not as much as he should have for us, but his clever little runs and his work rate and passing were pretty good.

During his 6 months of irregular starts and early subs, he managed 5 goals (not great) but 4 assists. 4 assists showed that he offered more than just goals. Now i'm not saying that that's good enough to keep him in a job in the long run, but it's more than enough to suggest that he should have been given longer to settle, especially when you consider his record prior to joining us. If Dossena can be given time by Rafa, then surely Keane should have been too. I believe that if Keane had been pursued by Rafa as his number one target and purchased exactly as he wanted him to have been, that Keane would have been given an awful lot longer than a paltry 6 months.

I just think he disrupts the gerrard/torres love in to much.

[Baldemort]

If that is the case then it must have been an open secret amongst the squad (skwad) all season long, as there has never been a convincing show of support for him. Stevie saying he loved partnering Torres and that it was his best position happened in the first quarter of the season, before Nando was injured.

If that is the case then it's doubly justified that he has to go as the manager had no faith in him and didn't want him. And still, when he was given the chance to prove people wrong (about 28 times all told) he failed miserably to do so.

I am glad that he has gone. I was hopeful when he signed but it became apparent pretty soon that he wasn't of LFC calibre and couldn't adapt to our pattern of play. Given this scenario, getting rid of him for the maximum amount of money and as quickly as possible should always have been our priority. Well done to all involved for at least sorting that out

Fair point, mate.

[Redspin]

that makes more sense.

But....why the hell would you freeze a player like Keane out and then sell him with a third of the season to go with no backup? If you don't fancy him as a player then fine, move him on in the summer but to leave us short at this stage seems crazy unless you are fighting another longer term battle.

If Rafa gets his way I for one will be very happy. The thought of someone like Parry deciding our transfer priorities is frightening.

Why hang on to a player who has never played well and looked out of his depth at the top level? If we hung on to him until the summer there's nothing to suggest from his abject performances that he'd help the squad and we'd very likely get much less money for him.

In summary, he was no good; he's gone; let's move on