John Barnes On Lucas & The Liverpool Squad

[mersey86]

Despite the flawed way some of the argument is expounded, John Barnes makes a good point here. I always get more pleasure out of hearing that Kuyt, Lucas or Babel have had a good game than I do on hearing about another good Gerrard or Torres performance. Those latter players are world class - we know that, and we can be confident that this will be evident in a competitive team. They are not going to get much better.
If we are to improve enough to win the title its by getting better contributions from other areas of the field. As a former teacher and a long-time sports coach its always a great thing to see a weakness stop being a weakness because of improvement in understanding and skills, and even sometimes become a strength. Too many of us see the sole way to strengthen as being through the cheque book.
I'm interested to see Barnes' opinion that United fans do not abuse their "lesser" players.

[ukfootballfan101]

Opta have reviewed his stats and he has a better tackling success rate than Mascherano!!

http://www.setanta.com//uk/Articles/Football/2009/03/18/Opta-Is-the-Lucas-criticism-justified/gnid-44880/

[JHP]

Opta have reviewed his stats and he has a better tackling success rate than Mascherano!!

http://www.setanta.com//uk/Articles/...ed/gnid-44880/

What's facts like that got to do with it? Biased self opinionated views don't need such stuff.

I'm on holiday at the moment and reading Carra's book. He makes mention of playing with England and the lack of support from the crowd then compares it to LFC and the other top clubs saying fans of successful clubs rarely boo their own players whilst emphasising the negative impact this has on performances.

I really find it hard to understand how some people sing YNWA and then don't support players. Also the posts on here slagging Lucas off and justifying their stance with in my opinion incredible arrogance.

[Craig_H]

What's facts like that got to do with it? Biased self opinionated views don't need such stuff.

I'm on holiday at the moment and reading Carra's book. He makes mention of playing with England and the lack of support from the crowd then compares it to LFC and the other top clubs saying fans of successful clubs rarely boo their own players whilst emphasising the negative impact this has on performances.

I really find it hard to understand how some people sing YNWA and then don't support players. Also the posts on here slagging Lucas off and justifying their stance with in my opinion incredible arrogance.

So either someone rates Lucas, or they're 'slagging him off' ?

Can someone just not rate him? Or is that not allowed? The irony of you criticising people for 'arrogance' and refusing to accept that some dont rate Lucas, is comical.

You're picking a team for the Champions League final tomorrow.

What's your team?

[Assassin]

So either someone rates Lucas, or they're 'slagging him off' ?

Can someone just not rate him? Or is that not allowed? The irony of you criticising people for 'arrogance' and refusing to accept that some dont rate Lucas, is comical.

You're picking a team for the Champions League final tomorrow.

What's your team?

Oh the irony, coming from someone who does not rate Lucas and continually slags him off. If Lucas wasnt in Scums backyard last week, we would have been staring a draw at the very best in the face. FACT!!!

"Arrogance?" Ignorance is a better word and that comes in from one of the best players ever to wear the liverbird on his chest "I keep reiterating the fact but the fans must start to respect the so-called Liverpool squad players more"

In answer to your question Liverpool

[Craig_H]

Oh the irony, coming from someone who does not rate Lucas and continually slags him off. If Lucas wasnt in Scums backyard last week, we would have been staring a draw at the very best in the face. FACT!!!

"Arrogance?" Ignorance is a better word and that comes in from one of the best players ever to wear the liverbird on his chest "I keep reiterating the fact but the fans must start to respect the so-called Liverpool squad players more"

In answer to your question Liverpool

Where have i slagged him off? I dont rate him, there's a difference.

Funny that you chose not to answer my question.

[mersey86]

What's facts like that got to do with it? Biased self opinionated views don't need such stuff.

I'm on holiday at the moment and reading Carra's book. He makes mention of playing with England and the lack of support from the crowd then compares it to LFC and the other top clubs saying fans of successful clubs rarely boo their own players whilst emphasising the negative impact this has on performances.

I really find it hard to understand how some people sing YNWA and then don't support players. Also the posts on here slagging Lucas off and justifying their stance with in my opinion incredible arrogance.

So either someone rates Lucas, or they're 'slagging him off' ?

Can someone just not rate him? Or is that not allowed? The irony of you criticising people for 'arrogance' and refusing to accept that some dont rate Lucas, is comical.

You're picking a team for the Champions League final tomorrow.

What's your team?

I think that's some leap you made in response to the original poster. Are you telling me that Lucas has not been booed at Anfield? Are you telling me that he has not been "slagged off" on these boards? I doubt it.
JHP made two points - 1. Booing a player does not help his performance.
2. Supporting the team should really mean you don't do that. I don't see any reference to the far milder and clearly acceptable "not rating".

As for the question which you want answered - maybe 1% of Liverpool fans would want Lucas in that team. But how often do we have one of Stvie, Xabi or Masher suspended or injured? I'd like a confident young player ready to step in ... or to make a difference from the bench. I don't want to see Lucas reach his full potential somewhere else - and I won't give up on a Liverpool player while he's at the club.

[Craig_H]

I think that's some leap you made in response to the original poster. Are you telling me that Lucas has not been booed at Anfield? Are you telling me that he has not been "slagged off" on these boards? I doubt it.
JHP made two points - 1. Booing a player does not help his performance.
2. Supporting the team should really mean you don't do that. I don't see any reference to the far milder and clearly acceptable "not rating".

As for the question which you want answered - maybe 1% of Liverpool fans would want Lucas in that team. But how often do we have one of Stvie, Xabi or Masher suspended or injured? I'd like a confident young player ready to step in ... or to make a difference from the bench. I don't want to see Lucas reach his full potential somewhere else - and I won't give up on a Liverpool player while he's at the club.

I agree about booing players, it's idiotic. Maybe going to Anfield on a matchday and spreading that message there would be more beneficial.

[Assassin]

Where have i slagged him off? I dont rate him, there's a difference.

Funny that you chose not to answer my question.

Point being you never miss an opportunity to put Lucas down. Try reading Barnesy's comments and cutting him some slack. Lucas is a good player very much in the mould of Ronny Whelan

Lucas does a job in the side, he is well liked by his manager Rafa Benitez though not it would appear by the fans. The lad does a lot of the unseen work, the donkey work if you like which is not appreciated by some but will be by his team-mates. I don`t think he has ever let the side down and is the sort of player every club needs. He won`t produce magic every week but he will give you an honest performance. I have no idea why he has been singled out in the past but once the fans start to appreciate Lucas, he will go from strength to strength.'

[redlancer]

Think the key difference with United fans not booing players is they are either winning or comming 2nd in the league year in year out. In our position we'd hear the boo's I recon.
Doesn't mean i understand it.

As for Masher at West Ham - wasn't it more the fact of him triggering a payment for games played.

As for anyone paying 38 quid to then boo a player is beyond me. I will never ever boo any player, as has been said it can't help. I'll criticise them out of ear shot, why would i as a supporter not support my teams through the good and bad times

At the madrid game if Torres missplaced a pass i could hear - unlucky
If Kuyt missplaced a pass I heard get him off.

Lucas scares me because his misstakes seem to lead to goals.
I'd love him to succeed and even on Saturday though he gave away a few free kicks and lost the ball a couple of times I still see him as young and without a lot of consistant experience.

recon Cheyrou failed to the boo's - ok maybe not strong enough mentaly but his 1st few games and one where he created 3 great chances for Owen who was having an off day showed he had some skill but then the fans got on his back when he didn't run for a ball and you could see the life drain from him for the rest of the match and then his career with us.

[Craig_H]

Point being you never miss an opportunity to put Lucas down. Try reading Barnesy's comments and cutting him some slack. Lucas is a good player very much in the mould of Ronny Whelan

Lucas does a job in the side, he is well liked by his manager Rafa Benitez though not it would appear by the fans. The lad does a lot of the unseen work, the donkey work if you like which is not appreciated by some but will be by his team-mates. I don`t think he has ever let the side down and is the sort of player every club needs. He won`t produce magic every week but he will give you an honest performance. I have no idea why he has been singled out in the past but once the fans start to appreciate Lucas, he will go from strength to strength.'

Again, i dont see any examples of where i'm always 'putting him down'.

I dont think he's good enough for us, that's a footballing based opinion.
Do i have to rate every player, in order to not being 'putting them down' ?

Feel free to point out examples of me slagging players off, as opposed to just expressing an opinion on their ability.

It seems as though you're not willing to ALLOW me to have my opinion on him - either i agree that he's good, or i'm slating him. I find that strange, personally.

[einar]

The big thing here for me is that those who "do not rate him" don´t seem to be basing their opinion on much. We know he works hard, we know he passes well. It is not his job to play the miracle pass. He is there to keep it simple and the ball moving and he does that brilliantly. We know he tackles very well, even better then Mascherano. We know he has game intelligence, he is very good positionally both defensively and offensively. He is strong in the air. He is very good technically. If one watches carefully how he receives the ball and passes it one can see that. And if you look at the game against Newcastle he was not just good in that game, he was great. Any other midfield player in the league would have been proud. And in the other games he has played for us, especially this year, he has been close to that level. So it seems to me that the only thing he has done wrong is giving the penalty away and getting sent off against Everton. And when you have just turned 22 you are allowed to make mistakes. I would bet my house that Carra and Gerrard made more mistakes at the age of 22 then Lucas does. And saying that he let the team down in those games is very unfair. If so then Carra let the team down against Hull. And I think we all agree that is bull****.

IMO the only thing the lad needs is more experience, support and more time on the pitch. I think he has the potential to become a great player for us.

[Redspin]

I actually don't buy that comparison. Mascher never really got a chance at West Ham and I don't think the crowd had anything to do with it. I think he has a valid point about respecting squad players and getting behind them. Although grouping Lucas and Hyypia seem strange. Everyone is behind Hyypia because of his past with us, Lucas is new and needs to gain confidence etc.

I also actually think that our squad is notably weaker than United's - he is very selective with his examples. United had Giggs, Scholes and Berbatov on the bench when we had Babel, El Zhar and Ngog.

I would disagree completely. Liverpool's bench was weaker - and the squad available on the day - only because of injuries to Benayoun, Agger, Alonso and Arbeloa. 2 certainly and possibly 3 of them might well have played if fit, so our bench would have looked a lot stronger if it had had 2-3 of the eventual starting XI in such circumstances.

Also, when the 3 Man U players came on with about 18 minutes to go I can't recall a single worthwhile contribution by any of them. Let's face it, at something like 34 and 35 Scholes and Giggs are mere shadows of the players they once where and Berbatov has generally been poor this season. Man U fans I know say he was shocking against Inter and usually plays like he can't be arsed. His 8 or 9 league goals is a poor return for £32m.

[BFG]

Giggs has been possibly their best player this year mate. Berbatov is a lazy get though.

[dww]

I would disagree completely. Liverpool's bench was weaker - and the squad available on the day - only because of injuries to Benayoun, Agger, Alonso and Arbeloa. 2 certainly and possibly 3 of them might well have played if fit, so our bench would have looked a lot stronger if it had had 2-3 of the eventual starting XI in such circumstances.

Also, when the 3 Man U players came on with about 18 minutes to go I can't recall a single worthwhile contribution by any of them. Let's face it, at something like 34 and 35 Scholes and Giggs are mere shadows of the players they once where and Berbatov has generally been poor this season. Man U fans I know say he was shocking against Inter and usually plays like he can't be arsed. His 8 or 9 league goals is a poor return for £32m.

Scholes and Giggs have been two of the best players in the league this year for me. The thing is though while we have strength in central areas and to some extent now defense in general we have limited options wide and up front compared to United and until the United game most people would have had Lucas at the bottom of any list of the central midfielders in either teams squads.

I also think you neglect the use over a season of the league winning experience of the likes of Giggs and Scholes - we have no equivalents in our squad.

Berbatov has underperformed compared to his price tag but he is still an excellent forward and his movement has helped others.