Gerrard: next year could be our year

[Woobus]

Gerrard 24
Torres 16
Kuyt 15
Benayoun 8
Keane 7

Ronaldo 26
Rooney 20
Tevez 15
Berbatov 14
Vidic 7
Nani 6


If we can assume that Agger will score about same as vidic next year and our front 2 will score about same as those ****s next year ( think we can gt a few more actually)

then to me the difference is 1 match Winner, and maybe another 1 from the bench

Would be better to use only premiership goals, they have played a lot more matches than we have this season.

[Craig_H]

Gerrard 24
Torres 16
Kuyt 15
Benayoun 8
Keane 7

Ronaldo 26
Rooney 20
Tevez 15
Berbatov 14
Vidic 7
Nani 6


If we can assume that Agger will score about same as vidic next year and our front 2 will score about same as those ****s next year ( think we can gt a few more actually)

then to me the difference is 1 match Winner, and maybe another 1 from the bench

I couldnt make any assumption about Agger getting 7 goals next season, because there's nothing to go on that suggests he'd get that many.

The problem is there to see, their top four scorers basically score more than our top five. Berbatov alone scores about the same as our 4th and 5th highest scorers. Granted Keane only had half the season but Rafa hardly looked like he'd be using him much anyway.

Perhaps if Torres had been fit more. But it goes beyond Torres and Gerrard. They're fine. Kuyt's had his best ever season, goal-wise and there's no certainty that he'll produce the same next year. Tevez only plays half the time, yet he's equalled Kuyt's best ever year. Not knocking Dirk, but after SG & FT, the difference is quality is clear.

[Woobus]

I couldnt make any assumption about Agger getting 7 goals next season, because there's nothing to go on that suggests he'd get that many.

The problem is there to see, their top four scorers basically score more than our top five. Berbatov alone scores about the same as our 4th and 5th highest scorers. Granted Keane only had half the season but Rafa hardly looked like he'd be using him much anyway.

Perhaps if Torres had been fit more. But it goes beyond Torres and Gerrard. They're fine. Kuyt's had his best ever season, goal-wise and there's no certainty that he'll produce the same next year. Tevez only plays half the time, yet he's equalled Kuyt's best ever year. Not knocking Dirk, but after SG & FT, the difference is quality is clear.

As I said looking at the premiership goals gives a better view due to the amount of matches United have played

Gerrard 16
Torres 13
Kuyt 12
Benni 7
Alonso 3

Ronaldo 18
Rooney 12
Berb 9
Tevez 5
Carrick 4

So the quality is clear to see with Kuyt being up there with their second leading goalscorer?

[Craig_H]

That certainly paints a different picture - and it had to, we scored more league goals than anyone, so there had to be evidence of this and your post shows it.

In this case, it can only come down to the timing of the goals - for example, we score five at Newcastle, which was great, but fail to score against Stoke (x2), WHU, Fulham & Boro. The mancs won about 10 games 1-0, certainly not done in style, but in terms of substance, yields more points.

I think it just comes down to those kind of players who, when things arent happening for you, make the difference. Tevez & Berbatov do that more often than Kuyt & Yossi, IMO.

Possibly it's also due to the fact that CT and DB play up front, while YB and DK dont.

[red g]

That certainly paints a different picture - and it had to, we scored more league goals than anyone, so there had to be evidence of this and your post shows it.

In this case, it can only come down to the timing of the goals - for example, we score five at Newcastle, which was great, but fail to score against Stoke (x2), WHU, Fulham & Boro. The mancs won about 10 games 1-0, certainly not done in style, but in terms of substance, yields more points.

I think it just comes down to those kind of players who, when things arent happening for you, make the difference. Tevez & Berbatov do that more often than Kuyt & Yossi, IMO.

Possibly it's also due to the fact that CT and DB play up front, while YB and DK dont.

I think YB on his game is a genuine matchwinner, But I think has been done to death its not about Kuyt, Yossi its about getting on the scoresheet when Gerrard/Torres arent playing together......that Partnership probably the most potent in World football means when one of them isnt playing creates big problems. How we get Round that **** knows!!

If we had our strongest 11 playing week in, week out we would walk this league imo. But thats unrealistic and so is getting anyone near as good as gerrard and Torres

and lets face itScum have 4 matchwinners....and 1 of them is very unhappy and one of them plays on the right anyway. hence he can play 3 of them at most times of the season

[Craig_H]

I think YB on his game is a genuine matchwinner, But I think has been done to death its not about Kuyt, Yossi its about getting on the scoresheet when Gerrard/Torres arent playing together......that Partnership probably the most potent in World football means when one of them isnt playing creates big problems. How we get Round that **** knows!!

If we had our strongest 11 playing week in, week out we would walk this league imo. But thats unrealistic and so is getting anyone near as good as gerrard and Torres

and lets face itScum have 4 matchwinners....and 1 of them is very unhappy and one of them plays on the right anyway. hence he can play 3 of them at most times of the season

We get round it by signing another player who we can look to on a regular basis, when we need a goal.

[red g]

We get round it by signing another player who we can look to on a regular basis, when we need a goal.

didnt we try that with keane?

[Roboklopp]

Keane failed so we try another.

[Craig_H]

didnt we try that with keane?

Well yeah, and it didnt work out. Doesnt mean we give up though.

[dww]

didnt we try that with keane?

Keane failed so we try another.

I think we have to learn the lessons from Keane though. I had reservations before we signed him because he didn't seem a natural fit for our formation or to be an obvious complement to Gerrard and Torres. I overcame them when he signed them on the hope that all we needed was an extra goal threat and that the fact he had linked well with Berbatov and Defoe was a sign that he was intelligent enough to adapt his game. Sadly the latter in particular was not true.

As such I think we need to look for players who satisfy at least one of the following criteria - hungry and eager to learn or a ready made player whose role would not impinge on the positions and movements that are made by Gerrard and Torres.

Obviously we need someone to come in who can play up front on their own if Torres is out but I feel their style has to be different to his to give us a plan B when he is fit as well.

[Big Dave]

That certainly paints a different picture - and it had to, we scored more league goals than anyone, so there had to be evidence of this and your post shows it.

In this case, it can only come down to the timing of the goals - for example, we score five at Newcastle, which was great, but fail to score against Stoke (x2), WHU, Fulham & Boro. The mancs won about 10 games 1-0, certainly not done in style, but in terms of substance, yields more points.
I think it just comes down to those kind of players who, when things arent happening for you, make the difference. Tevez & Berbatov do that more often than Kuyt & Yossi, IMO.

Possibly it's also due to the fact that CT and DB play up front, while YB and DK dont.

I think that this is the main consideration. I don't think that there's an argument that we don't score enough goals as our place at the top of the scoring chart demonstrates. It's all about the timing of the goals and being able to score one when we're straining at 0-0 to go out there and get the extra 2 points.

We've had way too many draws at home this season when teams have come to Anfield and parked the bus. The reason that the scum won the league is that they managed to get that vital goal, turning 1 point into 3.

How we go about that who knows, though we certainly need to bring somebody in who can get that goal when we're struggling

[Craig_H]

I think that's a key point, we need to be able to score goals even when we're not playing well, and when the opposition are well organised and pack men in front of their area.

When we play well, we can score plenty. When we're playing a side which has no clue about being organised and defending well (like Newcastle), we can score goals.

When we're not playing well and/or when we play against a well drilled, bus-parking defence, we need to still be able to find a goal. That's where you're looking for players who can produce a bit of quality out of nothing on a semi-regular basis - and that's what we lack. We've got 2, the mancs have got 4.

[dww]

I still think it is more a fact that they have six players who often make a difference and we have four. But in addition to that their defense has more consistently held their single goal advantages this season. Key games for me were Arsenal, Wigan and Everton where we went 1 up and let the lead go. Early in the season we could point to the Olympics having lessened Mashers effectiveness but later in the season the problem has been that we have had too many individual poor performances from Skrtel, Agger and at times Arbeloa. Those players have all shown better form in the past and I hope that that is their true level.

[red g]

I think that's a key point, we need to be able to score goals even when we're not playing well, and when the opposition are well organised and pack men in front of their area.

When we play well, we can score plenty. When we're playing a side which has no clue about being organised and defending well (like Newcastle), we can score goals.

When we're not playing well and/or when we play against a well drilled, bus-parking defence, we need to still be able to find a goal. That's where you're looking for players who can produce a bit of quality out of nothing on a semi-regular basis - and that's what we lack. We've got 2, the mancs have got 4.

but Kuyt is a semi regular scorer? so we must have 3?

[red g]

I still think it is more a fact that they have six players who often make a difference and we have four. But in addition to that their defense has more consistently held their single goal advantages this season. Key games for me were Arsenal, Wigan and Everton where we went 1 up and let the lead go. Early in the season we could point to the Olympics having lessened Mashers effectiveness but later in the season the problem has been that we have had too many individual poor performances from Skrtel, Agger and at times Arbeloa. Those players have all shown better form in the past and I hope that that is their true level.

I think thats very true as well, we seemed to get punished for so many individual errors....to me Evra and Rafael are forever getting caught out but get away with it, they maybe more to do with the brilliance of ferdinand and Vidic.