Rafa Transfer FACTS....

[cream]

I think he has squandered too much money on the wrong players. £17m for Glen Johnson... REALLY? Arbeloa was good enough for me, and he cost next to nothing. That money was better spent on a back-up striker or left winger. He also left it way to late to sign a centreback to replace Hyypia. The greek was like an afterthought.

Not enough was done to secure Gareth Barry, who I think would have filled either Alonsos boots or the left midfield role, and left us a bit of change for a right back and striker.

He hasnt had a big success in the transfer market since Torres, Benayoun and Skrtyl 3 seasons ago. Since then he has spent close to £80m. That has been his undoing, injuries aside). Johnson and Aquilani may justify some of that outlay, the rest has been wasted on 3rd rate players.

1. Rafa was looking for a CB until he was told he had no money so had to settle for a bargain basement buy

2. The Torres summer was Rafa's biggest success, which incidently was the last time he was given a proper transfer budget

He may have spent £80m in his time here, but thats not a great amount when you consider Torres would be worth alone, in fact, Gerrard and Torres would probably be worth more the whole squad that Rafa inherited from Houllier. £80m for revamping that whole squad is not a lot of money.

[Exiled_red]

I'm not wanting to turn this into an ownership thread, but looking at the transfer post above Hicks & Gillett took over in Feb 2007 our net spend since then is £36.5m since then we have had 3 summers (the main time to conduct our transfers and improve the squad) giving us an average net spend of just under £12.2m. The previous 3 years when we had Rafa as manager and with Moores in charge our net spend was £46.2m at an average of £15.4m a year.

This demonstrates how badly we've been let down by the new owners, Ok we may have a net spend of ~£10m in January which would even things up, but when you consider the increased revenue we've had this is unacceptable.

[FatTony]

I know people keep going on about net spend, but you can't just dismiss the entire £200m+ because his net spend is £85m. That other £110m was also spent to improve the squad, the fact that we had to sell to raise is irrelevent to a degree.

A lot of that money would've been dead wood in Rafa's eyes anyway, so the money he recouped from their sales should've been used to improve the team, and in many examples it seems we've moved on like for like (in quality terms) and in some cases worse. Babel, Voronin, Lucas, Skrtel, Dossena, Gonzales, Paletta, Riera, Johnson (I agree with Charly here, I was happy with Arbeloa (I know he wanted to go, but £18m on Glen was madness)),...

He also had the chance to keep last seasons top goal scorer and decided to let him go, along with a number of other decent strikers which is an area that Rafa has completely stuffed up.

The injuries are killing us at the moment, and with a fully fit squad I think we can beat anyone, but I'm not sure we can maintain that form enough to win the league.

The other thing that concerns me is that the only silverware he's ever won was with the majority of Houlliers squad.

He's brought a lot to us, but he's made quite a few gaffs too, we can't deny that.

[Exiled_red]

I know people keep going on about net spend, but you can't just dismiss the entire £200m+ because his net spend is £85m. That other £110m was also spent to improve the squad, the fact that we had to sell to raise is irrelevent to a degree.

A lot of that money would've been dead wood in Rafa's eyes anyway, so the money he recouped from their sales should've been used to improve the team, and in many examples it seems we've moved on like for like (in quality terms) and in some cases worse. Babel, Voronin, Lucas, Skrtel, Dossena, Gonzales, Paletta, Riera, Johnson (I agree with Charly here, I was happy with Arbeloa (I know he wanted to go, but £18m on Glen was madness)),...

He also had the chance to keep last seasons top goal scorer and decided to let him go, along with a number of other decent strikers which is an area that Rafa has completely stuffed up.

The injuries are killing us at the moment, and with a fully fit squad I think we can beat anyone, but I'm not sure we can maintain that form enough to win the league.

The other thing that concerns me is that the only silverware he's ever won was with the majority of Houlliers squad.

He's brought a lot to us, but he's made quite a few gaffs too, we can't deny that.

The net spend is the main way to judge the squad. He spend ~£10m on Alonso and ~£20m Aquilani as his replacement. Which in gross terms is £30m, but his net spend is zero because he raised the £30m from selling Alonso. He effectively spent the same money twice if you consider gross rather than net spend, which isn't right.

What we are effectively saying is that the squad is £85m better than the squad when he took over. Yes he's made some mistakes but everyone does that.

[Darth Marty]

I'm not wanting to turn this into an ownership thread, but looking at the transfer post above Hicks & Gillett took over in Feb 2007 our net spend since then is £36.5m since then we have had 3 summers (the main time to conduct our transfers and improve the squad) giving us an average net spend of just under £12.2m. The previous 3 years when we had Rafa as manager and with Moores in charge our net spend was £46.2m at an average of £15.4m a year.

This demonstrates how badly we've been let down by the new owners, Ok we may have a net spend of ~£10m in January which would even things up, but when you consider the increased revenue we've had this is unacceptable.

But looking through the forums and listening to our own fans do you think many realise all of this? Do they ****, I guarantee a lot of our fans still read the rag and other ****ty tabloids I wouldnt wipe my dogs arse with and listen to all the bollocks printed there and all that **** spouted on sky.

Its a bull**** situation not being helped by the so called best fans in the world.

[cream]

I know people keep going on about net spend, but you can't just dismiss the entire £200m+ because his net spend is £85m. That other £110m was also spent to improve the squad, the fact that we had to sell to raise is irrelevent to a degree.

A lot of that money would've been dead wood in Rafa's eyes anyway, so the money he recouped from their sales should've been used to improve the team, and in many examples it seems we've moved on like for like (in quality terms) and in some cases worse. Babel, Voronin, Lucas, Skrtel, Dossena, Gonzales, Paletta, Riera, Johnson (I agree with Charly here, I was happy with Arbeloa (I know he wanted to go, but £18m on Glen was madness)),...

He also had the chance to keep last seasons top goal scorer and decided to let him go, along with a number of other decent strikers which is an area that Rafa has completely stuffed up.

The injuries are killing us at the moment, and with a fully fit squad I think we can beat anyone, but I'm not sure we can maintain that form enough to win the league.

The other thing that concerns me is that the only silverware he's ever won was with the majority of Houlliers squad.

He's brought a lot to us, but he's made quite a few gaffs too, we can't deny that.

It's easy to pick out the worst signings just as it is easy to pick out the best ones, the only way to judge Rafa's transfers is to lay them all out from the first to last like it has been done in a previous post.

[Patricks_Berger]

the people who want rafa to leave mid season are not mad men. far from it. they realise the potential for disater if he stays. right now our form will not be good enough to obtain us the top 4 finish we need. if come xmas time we are anywhere but top 4 or within touching distance of the top 2 ( by which i mean we are 9 points behind already so anything upwards of 20-23 points of top ) then i'd suggest we get someone in. if we dont have cl to play for next year no top manager would touch us. if we still have a chance of gaining top 4 then we are an attractive option for the top dogs.

I am literally thrilled you wont be making that decision.

Who is this "Someone" you mention us getting in? Whats his record like?

Mourinho only manages clubs that can outspend everyone else in the league.

[BFG]

I know people keep going on about net spend, but you can't just dismiss the entire £200m+ because his net spend is £85m. That other £110m was also spent to improve the squad, the fact that we had to sell to raise is irrelevent to a degree.

How do you mean mate? Don't understand that statement at all. Net spend is the only relevant figure, it's gross that is irrelevant.

[Charly]

Gross spend is the way to judge the managers dealings in relation to winning things. He has spent £200m on players. About half has been wasted, and most quite recently.

net sped is how you assess the investment in the team made by the owners, and Benitez ability to make money on purchases

HE doesnt seem to be able to pick up as many bargins as when he first joined.

We could have afforded Barry if he had adjusted spenditure elsewhere.

17m is way too much for Johnson

[Scratch]

Rafa likes his FACTS apparently...

Fulham
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Tottenham
Sunderland

Which means that we won't lose another game this season

[Shaggy]

Net spend is the bottom line. Fact. Literally, fact.

[red g]

Gross spend is the way to judge the managers dealings in relation to winning things. He has spent £200m on players. About half has been wasted, and most quite recently.

net sped is how you assess the investment in the team made by the owners, and Benitez ability to make money on purchases

HE doesnt seem to be able to pick up as many bargins as when he first joined.

We could have afforded Barry if he had adjusted spenditure elsewhere.

17m is way too much for Johnson

why??

[Parr_Zee]

Also shows why we are worse off this season and what effect the massive debts are having on the club, the net spend over the last 2 summers is less than £3m

But if you compared this with Man Utd's net spend over the last 2 summers, they would be massively in profit.

[FatTony]

On the eve of this season, Liverpool manager Rafa Bentiez bemoaned his side’s lack of financial power. However, an analysis of the spending habits of the ‘Big Four’ since his appointment in June 2004 shows that the Spaniard has outspent Sir Alex Ferguson by £80m. Furthermore, when money raised through player sales is taken into account, Benitez’ net spending dwarves Ferguson’s by £95m and only Chelsea have spent more on player recruitment during the same five-year period.

Benitez wasted no time in splashing the cash on his arrival on Merseyside. In his first season at the club his net spending totalled £31m, including £20m on the misfiring strike partnership of Djibril Cisse* and Fernando Morientes. At the same time, Ferguson was making an upfront payment – also of £20m – for Wayne Rooney, who has since confirmed that he was, and still is, the brightest prospect in English football.

With Roman Abramovich a year into his Chelsea spending spree at the time of Benitez’s arrival, only the West London club could match the Spaniard’s outlay. Their most expensive signing that summer was the £24m Didier Drogba but his 102nd goal for the club against Blackburn yesterday suggests much better value for money than the £6.3m Benitez paid for Morientes, who managed just 12 goals throughout his Liverpool career.

While Benitez was spending £41m on eight players in that first season – none of whom are still at the club – Arsene Wenger was splashing out £2m on four players, two of whom – Manuel Almunia and Emmanuel Eboue – have become crucial members of the Arsenal side, while a third, Vito Mannone has burst on to the scene this season. In fact, since June 2004, Wenger has earned his club £27m from his transfer dealings and has spent £154m less that Benitez.

The extent of the Liverpool manager’s spending comes as a surprise, his method of recruitment offers up a telling explanation; as the figures show he likes to spread his wealth thinly. Since joining the club, he has signed 23 players for less than £3m, while during the same period Ferguson has brought in just seven bargain-basement players, the last of whom was the out-of-contract Michael Owen – the first player Benitez allowed to leave the Anfield.

It is worth noting that the world record fee of £80m Manchester United received from Real Madrid for Cristiano Ronaldo this summer undoubtedly massages their 2004-09 net spending figure, although such largesse did not stop Florentino Pérez boosting Liverpool’s coffers by £30m in return for the services of Xabi Alonso.

While in the six months before Bentiez’s appointment, Ferguson spent £26.7m on Louis Saha, Alan Smith and Gabriel Heinze, he was at least dipping into a £40m war chest funded by the sales of David Beckham to Real Madrid for £25m and Juan Sebastian Veron to Chelsea for £15m. Even taking Ferguson’s pre-Benitez spending into account, the Liverpool boss still comfortably outspends the Scot.

In conclusion, he could only have been referring to Chelsea when he said on the eve of this season that: “It is always difficult to compete in the Premier League with clubs who have more money.” And even then, Benitez’s net spending over the last five transfer windows eclipses even that of Abramovich. Perhaps now it is time he turned to some more imaginative excuses.


Players in bold no longer at the club.

Liverpool total net spend 2004-09: £122m loss

2004-05 Net spend: £31.05m loss in total
Players in + fee: Djibril Cisse £14m, Josemi £2m, Luis Garcia £6m, Xabi Alonso £10.5m, Antonio Nunez £2m, Mauricio Pellegrino free, Fernando Morientes £6.3m, Scott Carson £0.75m.
Players out + fee: Markus Babbel free, Danny Murphy £2.5m, Michael Owen £8m, Stephane Henchoz free.

2005-06 Net spend: £23.4m loss
Players in + fee: Pepe Reina (£6m), Mark Gonzalez (£4.5m), Boudewijn Zenden (free), Antonio Barragan (£0.25m), Mohamed Sissoko (£5.6m), Peter Crouch (£7m), Godwin Antwin (£0.5m), Jack Hobbs (£0.75m), Paul Anderson (£1m), Jan Kromkamp (Swap), David Martin (£0.5m), Daniel Agger (£5.8m), Robbie Fowler (Free).
Players out + fee: Vladimir Smicer (Free), El Hadji Diouf (£1.5m), Mauricio Pellegrino (Free), Gregory Vignal (Free), Antonio Nunez (£0.5m), Ritchie Partridge (Free), Milan Baros (£6.5m), Josemi (Swap).

2006-07 Net spend: £32.85m loss
Players in + fee: Craig Bellamy £6m, Gabriel Paletta £2m, Fabio Aurelio Free, Jermaine Pennant £6.7m, Dirk Kuyt £9m, Nabil El Zhar £1m, Alvaro Arbeloa £2.6m, Francisco Manuel Duran Free, Javier Mascherano £18.6m.
Players out + fee: Fernando Morientes £3m, Bruno Cheyrou (£0.5m), Dietmar Hamann (£0.4m), Carl Medjani Free, Antonio Barragan (£0.7m), Djimi Traore (£2m),Neil Mellor £1m, Jan Kromkamp £1.7m, Chris Kirkland £2m, Darren Potter £0.25m, Stephen Warnock £1.5m, Salif Diao Free.

2007-08 Net spend: £23.3m loss
Players in + fee: Andriy Voronin Free, Krisztian Nemeth £0.5m, Charles-Hubert Itandje £3.5m, Fernando Torres £26.5m, Yossi Benayoun £5m,Ryan Babel £11.5m, Emiliano Insua £2m*, Damien Plessis (£1m), Martin Skrtel (£6m).
Players out + fee: Florent Sinoma Pongolle £2.7m, Danny O’Donnell £0.1m, Luis Garcia £4m, Boudewijn Zenden Free, Djibril Cisse £6m, Craig Bellamy £7.5m, Mark Gonzalez £4.2m, Jerzey Dudek Free, Robbie Fowler Free, Mohamed Sissoko £8.2m, Gabriel Paletta Swap.

2008-09 Net spend: £6.45m loss
Players in + fee: Philipp Degen free, Andrea Dossena £7m, Diego Cavalieri £3.5m, David Ngog £1.5m, Robbie Keane £20.3m, Vitor Flora Free, Albert Riera £8m.
Players out + fee: Anthony Le Tallec £1.1m, Harry Kewell Free, Peter Crouch £9m, Danny Guthrie £2.5m, Scott Carson £3.25m, John Arne Riise £4m, Steve Finnan £2m, Robbie Keane £12m.

2009-10 Net spend: £4.95m loss
Players in + fee: Glen Johnson £18m, Alberto Aquilani £20m, Sotiros Kyrgiakos £2m.
Players out + fee: Paul Anderson £0.25m, Sebastian Leto £1.3m, Sami Hyypia Free, Jermaine Pennant Free, Alvaro Arbeloa £3.5m, Xabi Alonso £30m.

Manchester United total net spend 2004-2009: £27m loss

2004-05 Net spend: £20.3m loss
Players in + fee: Wayne Rooney £26m, Florent N’Galula Nominal
Players out + fee: Nicky Butt £2.5m, Luke Chadwick Free, Diego Forlan £2m, Bojan Djordic Free, Eric Djemba-Djemba £1.2m

2005-06 Net spend: £13.5m loss
Players in + fee: Edwin van der Sar £2m, Ji-Sung Park £4m, Ben Foster £1m, Nemanja Vidic £7m, Patrice Evra £5.5m
Players out + fee: Roy Carroll Free, Ricardo Free, Phil Neville £3.5m, Kleberson £2.5m, Roy Keane Free

2006-07 Net spend: £2.9m loss
Players in + fee: Michael Carrick £18.6m
Players out + fee: Jonathan Spector £0.5m, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake £0.2m, Quinton Fortune Free, Ruud van Nistelrooy £11m, Liam Miller Free, David Jones £1m, Tim Howard £3m

2007-08 Net spend: £24m loss
Players in + fee: Owen Hargreaves £17m, Anderson £17m, Tomas Kuszczak £2.1m, Nani £17m, Carlos Tevez Loan, Manucho Nominal
Players out + fee: Kieran Richardson £5.5m, Giuseppe Rossi £6.6m, Alan Smith £6m, Gabriel Heinze £8m, Ryan Shawcross£1m, Phil Bardsley £2m

2008-09 Net spend: £33.1m loss
Players in + fee: Dimitar Berbatov £30.75m, Zoran Tosic £9m, Ritchie de Laet £0.1m
Players out + fee: Gerard Pique £5m, Chris Eagles £1m, Mikael Silvestre £0.75m, Loius Saha Nominal

2009-10 Net spend: £66.5m profit
Players in + fee: Antonio Valencia £16m, Gabriel Obertan £3m, Michael Owen Free
Players out + fee: Cristiano Ronaldo £80m, Lee Martin £2m, Fraizer Campbell £3.5m, Carlos Tevez Released, Manucho Nominal

Chelsea total net spend 2004-09: £186m loss

2004-05 Net spend: £87.6m loss
Players in + fee: Arjen Robben £12m, Paulo Ferreira £13.2m, Alex £5m, Mateja Kezman £5m, Tiago £8m, Didier Drogba £24m, Ricardo Carvalho £20.6m, Jiri Jarosik £3m
Players out + fee: Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink Free, Mario Melchiot Free, Jesper Gronkjaer £2.2m, Boudewijn Zenden Free, Neil Sullivan Free, Celestine Babyaro £1m, Marco Ambrosio Free, Adrian Mutu Free



2005-06 Net spend: £32.1m loss
Players in + fee: Asier del Horno £8m, Lassana Diarra £1m, Shaun Wright-Phillips £21m, Michael Essien £24.4m
Players out + fee: Mikael Forssell £3m, Scott Parker £6.5m, Juan Sebastian Veron Undisc, Mateja Kezman £5.3m, Tiago £6.5m, Alexei Smertin £1m

2006-07 Net spend: £37.7m loss
Players in + fee: Michael Ballack Free, Salomon Kalou £8m, Andrei Shevchenko £30m, John Obi-Mikel £16m, Khalid Boulahrouz £7m, Ashley Cole £5m (swap)
Players out + fee: Eidur Gudjohnson £8m, Jiri Jarosik £0.5m, Carlton Cole £4m, Damien Duff £5m, Asier del Horno £4.8m, Hernan Crespo Free, Willian Gallas Swap, Robert Huth £6m

2007-08 Net spend: £13.5m loss
Players in + fee: Steve Sidwell Free, Claudio Pizarro Free, Tal Ben-Haim Free, Florent Malouda £13.5m, Juliano Belletti £3m, Nicolas Anelka £15m, Branislav Ivanovic £9m, Franco di Santo £3m
Players out + fee: Arjen Robben £24m, Glen Johnson £4m, Lassana Diarra £2m

2008-09 Net spend: £6.8m profit
Players in + fee: Jose Bosingwa £16.2m, Deco £8m.
Players out + fee: Steve Sidwell £5m, Claude Makelele Free, Tal Ben-Haim £5m, Shaun Wright-Phillips £9m, Wayne Bridge £12m, Carlo Cudicini Free.

2009-10 Net spend: £22m loss
Players in + fee: Mineiro Undisc, Gokham Tore Undisc, Yuri Zhirkov £18m, Daniel Sturridge £5m (tribunal)
Players out + fee: Ben Sahar £1m, Frank Nouble Undisc, Andrei Shevchenko Free.

Arsenal Net spend 2004-09: £27m profit

2004-05 Net spend: £2.55m profit
Players in + fee: Arturo Lupoli £0.2m, Manuel Almunia £0.5m, Vito Mannone £0.35m, Emmanuel Eboue £1m.
Players out + fee: Giovanni van Bronckhorst £2m, Martin Keown Free, Ray Parlour Free, Kanu Free, Francis Jeffers £2.6m, Igor Stepanovs nominal, Sylvain Wiltord Free, Rami Shabaan Free.

2005-06 Net spend: £5m loss
Players in + fee: Nicklas Bendtner undisc, Alexander Hleb £11.2m, Vassiriki Diaby £2m, Emmanuel Adebayor £7m, Theo Walcott £5m, Mart Poom undisc
Players out + fee: Stuart Taylor Undisc, Jermaine Pennant £3m, Patrick Viera £13.7m, David Bentley £3m

2006-07 Net spend: £0.7m loss
Players in + fee: Tomas Rosicky £6.8m, Fran Merida Free, Alexandre Song £1m, William Gallas Swap, Denilson £3.4m.
Players out + fee: Robert Pires Free, Sol Campbell Free, Pascal Cygan £2m, Ashley Cole £5m (swap), Anthony Stokes £2m, Lauren £0.5m, Sebastian Larsson £1m

2007-08 Net spend: £19.9m profit
Players in + fee: Lukasz Fabianski £2m, Eduardo £7.5m, Bakari Sagna £6m, Lassana Diarra £2m, Luke Freeman £0.2m Players out + fee: Fabrice Muamba £4m, Jeremie Alaidiere £2m, Thierry Henry £16.1m, Arturo Lupoli Free, Fredrik Ljungberg£3m, Jose Antonio Reyes £6m, Matthew Connolly £1m, Lassana Diarra £5.5m

2008-09 Net spend:£20.75m loss
Players in + fee: Aaron Ramsey £5m, Samir Nasri £15.8m, Amaury Bischoff Free, Mikael Silvestre £0.75m, Andrei Arshavin£15m
Players out + fee: Jens Lehmann Free, Mathieu Flamini Free, Alexander Hleb £11.8m, Gilberto Silva £1m, Justin Hoyte £3m

2009-10 Net spend: £31m profit
Players in + fee: Thomas Vermaelen £10m
Players out + fee , Emmanuel Adebayor £25m, Kolo Toure £16m.

*this was Houlliers purchase though I believe that Rafa still sanctioned it.




This has highlighted some of my problems with Rafa's transfers, especially the fact that he spreads his budget very thinly, purchasing several average players instead of 1 or 2 decent players. This has also had the affect that we've seen so many players come and go...why, because they offered us no improvement on players we already had. I think his early years he spent so much on medicority instead of introducing class that the poor net spend figures people talk about are a lot of his own doing.

[Exiled_red]

Comparisons of spend with Chelsea and Man Utd are a little unfair in that at the point Benitez came in both had better squads than us, our squad required a complete overhaul while they just needed a few minor changes.