Ryan Babel's goal

[Harv]

You're too easy

No i don't want to have a conversation with you in French....i don't speak the language. That's why you don't see me using French phrases referring to others. If you dont know what something means, don't say it. "Embellish your culture"

Now, now Fredo. Don't start calling me names because you're getting frustrated.

Babel will never put in more consistent performances, which is the whole point of my dislike for him....he's a lazy **** of a player. I'm not fickle about this. Its not just that we are having a rough patch, Kuyt is playing like **** too...do you see me bagging him? No. Why? Because he works harder than anyone else. Babel has talent, but he's just lazy and dumb. I was saying this last season too BTW.

Whats with the abuse?? I'd like to see what you said

[little dave hedgehog]

Oh he knows it before you even got a sniff of it, you dumb arse.

As for the 'fickle' reference well, the point I was trying to make was obvious, even if I didn't emphasise it properly in my post. Still, I have a smart arse such as you for correcting my English, when in the first place it is not my first language. Thank you for that. By the way, fancy having a bit of chit chat in French with me? I might teach you some 'art de vivre' which should embellish your culture a bit.

Coming back to the topic of this thread, if Babel had 'two left feet' as you would imply, he wouldn't be scoring goals such as the one he scored the other day. Maybe he's lazy (or looks like one) or hasn't got much footballing brains, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. He's got bags of it but doesn't demonstrate it enough at the highest level. I've got no qualms in Rafa selling him when he sees fit. My point all along is that some supporters are just quick to level abuse at players when things aren't going our way, cue the reference to being 'fickle'. You'd love him if he'd put in more consistent performances for us eh? Someone with half a brain would have understood what I meant.

As for me deleting my post, well I spouted a load of abuse at you which I didn't feel you deserve. That's why I deleted it.

well, yes actually! i am not happy with the players who aren't good enough week in week out. it's in large part their fault we are where we are today. of course i'd like him if he were consistently good. the point is, he's not.

[Guest]

Well for being 'easy' I guess not, as it took you so long to 'guess'. It's not until recently that I've 'reverted' back to my old ways. I think it was a bad idea anyway.

I don't usually dish out abuse gratuitously, only when someone start doing it at my expense. Don't worry, it's not something that would've incensed you too much.

Fancy drawing a line under all that bickering mate? I've got nothing against you, I'm just a bit sensitive about all things LFC, like you probably are (and others) and I don't like the infighting.

[Guest]

well, yes actually! i am not happy with the players who aren't good enough week in week out. it's in large part their fault we are where we are today. of course i'd like him if he were consistently good. the point is, he's not.

Sack Rafa mate, he plays them.

[little dave hedgehog]

well you made some good points. unfortunately, they were in jest.

[little dave hedgehog]

i said they were partially at fault. players didn't get sold because there waws no money to replace them. we knew they weren't good enough, but we've been forced to hang onto them and hope for more money. buying them was rafa's fault. hanging onto them is the owners'.

if you're going to lay this all at rafa's feet, then i hope they sack 1/2 the playing staff while they're at it and get in some quality.

we all know they won't though.

[Guest]

i said they were partially at fault. players didn't get sold because there waws no money to replace them. we knew they weren't good enough, but we've been forced to hang onto them and hope for more money. buying them was rafa's fault. hanging onto them is the owners'.

if you're going to lay this all at rafa's feet, then i hope they sack 1/2 the playing staff while they're at it and get in some quality.

we all know they won't though.

We can't be as bad a team is it? Only last year we were in the quarter finals of the CL and finished second, 4 points off the top. It's been hard this year but I think it can be explained. Injuries, players coming back out of form, Rafa not getting what he wants in the transfer market, Alonso disrupting his plans, Mascherano agitating for a move ... All of that contributed a bit to our slow start this season.

We'll be back though. I remember last year people criticising Benayoun for being **** etc ... at the end of the season, they were singing his praises.

[little dave hedgehog]

we overachieved last season, and we're underachieving now. our natural level is somewhere in between--and not a title-winning level. we would need to overachieve for an entire season to win. that's not good enough. i want my club to be good enough, but they aren't. yes, injuries and things have made us look worse than we are. but even what we are is still not good enough. and if the players we do have are not going to take their chances and stake a claim for a squad place, then they need to be moved on. simple.

[Guest]

we overachieved last season, and we're underachieving now. our natural level is somewhere in between--and not a title-winning level. we would need to overachieve for an entire season to win. that's not good enough. i want my club to be good enough, but they aren't. yes, injuries and things have made us look worse than we are. but even what we are is still not good enough. and if the players we do have are not going to take their chances and stake a claim for a squad place, then they need to be moved on. simple.

Of course they need to be moved on but you can't move on these players if there aren't clubs willing to take them for the right price. Furthermore, you can't sell a player unless it's in January or during the close season. So in a situation where you have to play them, for them to justify their salaries and to give them opportunities to stake their claim and improve, why not? Babel did his job the other day and scored; then why the criticism?

As for our squad not being up to a title winning level, I'd have to agree with you. With our first team 11 we can beat any team, but over the course of a season we are dependent on a number of factors, or luck if you like. That was obvious from the start, but still I think our starting XI is better than last season, with the addition of Johnson.

Even with all those things considered, we should fight on and retain our hopes whilst there's still life in it.

[javier_monsterano]

Someone mentioned that they would be happy with babel if he was consistently good and that
He isn't.
Maybe if the lad was given a run of games and played bad,you could say that.
Until he gets a run of consecutive games and gets his chance to show the real
Ryan babel. Your all full of ****.give the boy a chance in the team,he will show his class.
Until that happens,I'm afraid we will only see flashes of what is possible.

[Exiled_red]

The problem with this whole "played out of position" thing with Babel is that I really can't see him having the intelligence to play upfront. He rarely picks the right pass, hasn't got the selfless workrate, and disappears far too often from games when he is played in a position where he should see more of the ball than he would up top. I would just about rather see him played there than Voronin, but as far as choices go its not a very good one either way.

I'd agree with all of that, From what we have seen he has some key parts of his game missing, I'm not going in to detail as they've been discussed many times. However having seen Voronin play in that postion in the last few weeks I'd take Babel ahead of him. For two simple reasons, firstly he is capable of occasional moments of brilliance as his goal the other night showed, which I don't believe Voronin is, secondly his pace scares defenders meaning he is capable of winning us penalties and free kicks in dangerous areas.

Oh, and it would be appreciated if we could leave out the "who is a better supporter" nonsense. Some people respond to adversity by bunkering down and backing the team no matter what - an admirable quality to have, but only if you understand at the same time that those who are angry and frustrated are so because they also care deeply and hate seeing the club they love fail. I think you'd struggle to find any fan who wouldn't be extremely happy if Babel suddenly turned into a reincarnation of Eusebio, but that doesn't seem very likely right now, and the fans frustration at players like him, especially in the face of numerous bad results, is inevitable.

By the same count however, someone who wants to be more supportive doesn't deserve abuse either. So really, lets leave the name calling to fans of other teams, there's no need for lfc supporters to turn on each other just because they disagree about minor specifics.

[Exiled_red]

Someone mentioned that they would be happy with babel if he was consistently good and that
He isn't.
Maybe if the lad was given a run of games and played bad,you could say that.
Until he gets a run of consecutive games and gets his chance to show the real
Ryan babel. Your all full of ****.give the boy a chance in the team,he will show his class.
Until that happens,I'm afraid we will only see flashes of what is possible.

The thing is he is capable of moments of brilliance but he can't do the simple things well enough and while goals win games, sloppiness, poor decisions in possession, and not tracking back when required all prove costly, and for me there aren't enough good moments we outweigh the bad, which is why he isn't getting games. He's been at the club long enough to know what is required of him, he either isn't able to do that or doesn't want to. This year he is supposed to be motivated by the fact that there is a world cup place to play for. If that's what he wants the only way to do that is by playing well for us. If he's not in the team regularly when he gets a run out he should be really up for it, to fight to win his place back!

[BFG]

Whats the point in that? Just because they play for the club we HAVE to support them till they leave? **** that! Thats why we come 2nd-4th every season. There is one thing and one thing only why people play football at this level. To win things. With players like Babel and Voronin we wont win much anytime soon.....i guess you're happy with that, being second best all the time, whilst our rivals over take us. I'm not, i love this club, and i hate watching us regress when we were so close last season.

Can you explain how this is true Harv? Surely giving better support to a team can only improve it's chances, not be the reason for us finishing 2nd - 4th every season.

Redder may be Fredo but you're doing a good job of impersonating Craig H with hyperbole like that.

[Harv]

Can you explain how this is true Harv? Surely giving better support to a team can only improve it's chances, not be the reason for us finishing 2nd - 4th every season.

Redder may be Fredo but you're doing a good job of impersonating Craig H with hyperbole like that.

Its not hyperbole, its nowhere near.

Our acceptance of mediocre players is the reason why we struggle to knock of the Mancs/Chavs/Arse. The majority of fans back the players blindly it seems, they can play like utter cunts.......but they play for LFC, so we have to support them. If a player isn't good enough after 2-3 seasons why should he get anymore support? Its just silly, and IMO its a huge part of the reason we are where we are now.

Babel was ****ing **** again when he came on. His first touch of the ball bounced all the way back to our own half and the CB had to mop it up. He needs to go.

[MrMichael]

Its not hyperbole, its nowhere near.

Our acceptance of mediocre players is the reason why we struggle to knock of the Mancs/Chavs/Arse. The majority of fans back the players blindly it seems, they can play like utter cunts.......but they play for LFC, so we have to support them. If a player isn't good enough after 2-3 seasons why should he get anymore support? Its just silly, and IMO its a huge part of the reason we are where we are now.

Babel was ****ing **** again when he came on. His first touch of the ball bounced all the way back to our own half and the CB had to mop it up. He needs to go.

I'm not sure its quite as simple as that Harv. Reading most threads about Babel on here, especially this season, the increasingly consensus opinion is that on current evidence, Babel is unlikely to ever make it at Anfield. I think quite a lot of people would be quite happy seeing him used in a deal to bring a different, quality attacking option in when that would be possible.

However, with the transfer window situation that's just not possible for all but 3 months a year, and even when it is, who's to say what our circumstances will be financially? So what're we supposed to do then for the meantime, especially when injuries are mounting up and all hands are needed to the pump? Slag that player off to high heaven, boo when he gets brought on and delight in his failures? Or hope against hope that the seeds of a good player, however small they may be, will somehow mature enough so as to actually be useful to the team for as long as they have to be?

Benitez certainly has a good record in terms of moving on players who weren't working out, but he also used those people when he had to right until the day of their departure. Bellamy, Nunez, Morientes, Josemi etc. I'm pretty sure Benitez will be moving Babel on (if he is still in charge or unless there is a massive change in the lad's fortunes) as soon as there is a decent enough offer / replacement, but in the meantime does "supporting a player who pulls on the shirt" necessarily have to equate to "acceptance of mediocrity"?

Personally I don't think it does.