Enough ?

[Kenneth]

We do have average players at the club, ffs, it's because as a rule we pay average prices.

We have some average players, but so do Man Utd and Arsenal. We also have some quality players. Out squad may not be good/expensive enough to win the league, but it's better than the ****e we are seeing now.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ, what a load of ****e. I don't even know where to start. You keep blaming the players for letting Rafa down and yet you ignore the fact that they are his players!!

We as supporters expect defeat? Erm id say we are negative because we can see that the team isn't good enough and the manager keeps making mistakes.

A big part of me loves Rafa for making us a powerhouse in european football during his reign but the whole time we have been poor in the league. Barring 3/4 months of last season we have constantly played negative football against bottom half clubs who we should have been sweeping away.

This is the worst season in memory and it keeps getting worse. We won a couple of league games recently because Rafa was forced to drop his 2 defensive midfield combo because Mascher got suspended. Either he has become even more stubborn or he can't see the obvious anymore.

I feel for the man because he has given it his all but its just not working. This is the worst season in many many years. I have no doubt that he has been hampered by financial problems but that doesn't cover up his mistakes over the past year

I was being highly sarcastic, and your post emphasises why.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ, what a load of ****e. I don't even know where to start. You keep blaming the players for letting Rafa down and yet you ignore the fact that they are his players!!

We as supporters expect defeat? Erm id say we are negative because we can see that the team isn't good enough and the manager keeps making mistakes.

A big part of me loves Rafa for making us a powerhouse in european football during his reign but the whole time we have been poor in the league. Barring 3/4 months of last season we have constantly played negative football against bottom half clubs who we should have been sweeping away.

This is the worst season in memory and it keeps getting worse. We won a couple of league games recently because Rafa was forced to drop his 2 defensive midfield combo because Mascher got suspended. Either he has become even more stubborn or he can't see the obvious anymore.

I feel for the man because he has given it his all but its just not working. This is the worst season in many many years. I have no doubt that he has been hampered by financial problems but that doesn't cover up his mistakes over the past year

Of all the teams it had to be ****ing stoke. I really thought we would turn it around last night but if we couldn't do it against reading then i know we wont against stoke. I might actually do a prayer for the team for once

Oh yes you do mate.

[-V-]

No im expecting a 0-0 you tool. Not defeat

[Guest]

No im expecting a 0-0 you tool. Not defeat

Can't you be any more constructive? Since I've treated you as such, I expected you to dish it out.

[ufc43]

For the good of the CLUB.

I never want to see a manager get the sack. But sometimes it has to be done. Sometimes its because of the players letting the manager down, sometimes its the board and sometimes its the manager himself. I honestly feel our poor form is down to two of these. The manager and the players. We all watch football or any sport for that matter because you are never sure of the outcome, hence the excitement. If results were guaranteed in any sport, it would be boring.

Its not as much the losses that are getting to me but rather the performances that we have been put in. I'm not saying that I would like to see us play great football and still lose every game but I would at least expect some determination and fight when you wear the red jersey. In all my years of watching football and not just Liverpool, I don't think I have ever seen a top team with such disinterest. Our football is terrible to watch and the body language of some of the players is terrible. I know some will slate me for this, but I think Gerrard and Torres are the biggest culprits. I know people will get on saying stuff like 'do you blame them with the ****e they have around them' etc, but I don't buy it.

I think the sulking of Gerrard and Torres has had a massive impact on the team. If you don't agree with some things at the club or whatever you should still be willing to give it your all once you walk on to the pitch. Even if its just for yourself.

Getting back to Rafa, I think he needs to change the way he deals with the players. A number of past and present players have said that he is very formal. He is the manager and you are the player. There is no personal side to him and I think that's what is getting to the players. Take the refusal of allowing Alonso to travel to his family when they needed him. How is that going to help the player/manager relationship?

Too many of the current players no longer want to play for Rafa in my opinion. Weather that's justified or not only I don't know. What I do know is that something needs to be done NOW for the good of the CLUB. This ****e can not go on any longer.

[-V-]

Fredo I can't help it, the post of yours that I quoted really antagonized me. As do most of your posts actually since you just try to wind people up

[Guest]

Fredo I can't help it, the post of yours that I quoted really antagonized me. As do most of your posts actually

How do I 'antagonise' you?

Surely you cannot fault me for being consistent in my assessment of what's happening with the club no? By telling me that I'm a 'tool' how is that not 'antagonising' though?

[-V-]

Every liverpool supporter is born with a ****ing spoon in his mouth??? Expect silverware every year? Relegated in 2 seasons????

[Vermilion]

We have some average players, but so do Man Utd and Arsenal. We also have some quality players. Out squad may not be good/expensive enough to win the league, but it's better than the ****e we are seeing now.

It is, much better, and Rafa is a much better manager than he's being portrayed as by many on here.

As for utd having some average players too, well, count the number of times they've spent 20mill plus on players compared to us, and still their form has suffered with an injury crisis and lack of fitness in some, not losing Rooney has been a god send for them.

[Guest]

Every liverpool supporter is born with a ****ing spoon in his mouth??? Expect silverware every year? Relegated in 2 seasons????

Ok I understand that this riles up people, but as I said, I was being highly sarcastic, but fair enough.

[Harv]

He's also an utter utter cunt with no class whatsoever, who the majority of Liverpool fans hated not so long ago. Anyone but him.

Being honest, i only hated him purely because he was at Chelsea, and winning things. If he was our manager, and got under peoples skin the way he did to us, Mancs, Wenger et al we would love the guy.

If not taking any **** and speaking your mind, getting under the skin of your opponent (winning before you even step foot onto the pitch) is having no class....then he has it in spades.

The guy is a born winner, and if fans don't want him because they didn't like him at Chelsea......then i pity them.

[Taxi]

To say that none of this is the managers fault is as simplistic as to say that its all his fault. Its the collective responsibility of the manager, the players and the board.

The way I see it, there are many problems with this club at the moment.

Tactically, we seem to be very predictable and too defensive. Its all very negative, like last night for example, we remove the attacking Deggen and bring on Skrtel which you can only presume was a move to tighten up the defence and head for penalties, against a team bottom of the table in the championship. Rafa has on numerous occasions removed an attacking player for a defensive player when we're chasing the game. Bennayoun had a poor game last night, but he's been one of our best players so far this season, he adds something extra in attack yet he starts on the bench more often than not. Its almost as though Rafa is thinking more defensively before the ball is even kicked against far lesser squads.

Playing Torres up front on his own all the time in England is questionable and one of the reasons I think he's getting so many injuries. Its too much for the lad, too much work and he's getting battered. With no width we're forever looking for the killer ball to Torres, but its all too narrow and now very easy to defend against. Put two defenders on Torres and who have they got to worry about coming in from a wide position...Kuyt? Playing Gerrard behind him is also a problem. Yes, the pair (when fit) have a great record for scoring goals, but without Alonso spoon-feeding them, this season they're feeding on scraps.

Rafa's turnover of players is too high, its been like a merry-go-round over the last 5 years. This is down to a couple of things, the transfer budget, how he decides to spend it and his inability to hold on to a want away player. Over the first few seasons, Rafa was spending big money on lots of players, trying to make the budget spread further than it should. Personally, I think he should've kept more of Houlliers squad and instead spent big on a couple of world class players each transfer window, easing Houlliers squad out over a longer period. Playing with the formation he does, its going to be hard to keep our attacking resources all happy, and over the last few years we've seen our strike force reduce steadily to what it is now, one world class striker and one average kid. Everytime a player seems to have a grumble and wants away because of the lack of starts, they seem to go off without so much of a discussion highlighting the fact that Rafa does not seem to be a great man manager. The thing is, sticking to this formation means that there's no light on the horizon for our second striker and the reason we'll never win the league because Torres will never remain fit enough to last a season and we'll be left with a second rate striker as a replacement. Keane, Crouch, Bellamy all half decent strikers and all moved on to be left with Ngog.

Gerrard for me this season has been nothing short of a disgrace. He is the most complete footballer in the world, you could play him anywhere other than goals and he would be capable of getting MOM, but his attitude this season has been abysmal. His head is going down to quickly and he's been absolutely anonymous in a number of games this season. I just hope that this is down to this niggling groin injury thats been reported and that he remembers this if he decides to leave at the end of the season. The one thing that worries me, and this is only reading into things, I think Gerrard has either lost belief in Rafa, or has no belief in some of the players at the club and a lot of this poor form is sulking.

Confidence has been shot to pieces. We've been poor since pre-season, completely outplayed by a struggling Atheltico Madrid in the summer and since then things have only improved in a couple of one off matches. I only see this confidence returning when we have the majority of our best starting 11 fit, and if they are Rafa needs to field them and not rest one of two players because the balance of our staring 11 is almost perfect, you change one or two players and its gone.

I don't have faith in a number of players at the club being of the quality needed to challenge. Kuyt, Lucas, Ngog, Babel, Insua, Skrtel, Deggen are just not good enough to start. This season, Kuyt, Insua and Lucas have started most games and are just not up to it. I think many of us have been so keen to see some positives in what has become an unbearable season that we're looking for any half decent touch or pass as evidence that one or two of the players might have what it takes. We're getting so used to watching the poor performances that when the likes of Ngog, Lucas or Insua make just one decent pass or tackle we big it up as a good performance, when in reality, they're just very average players.

To turn this around, Torres needs a decent experienced strike partner who doesn't have to cost a fortune, and I'd have a preference for a big lump like Carew. Gerrard needs to sit alongside Mascherano, Maxi needs to be an instant success and replace Kuyt permanently, whilst Riera returns on the left. Aurelio needs to replace Insua, Johnson needs to get fit (as we have no decent replacement...), and Agger needs a decent partner to share the starts with Carra (Skrtel isn't it). The issue then is just where does the £20m Aquilani fit in?

We have a heck of a job on our hands now to get into the Champions League next season and Ireally worry for us if we don't.

[Guest]

Being honest, i only hated him purely because he was at Chelsea, and winning things. If he was our manager, and got under peoples skin the way he did to us, Mancs, Wenger et al we would love the guy.

If not taking any **** and speaking your mind, getting under the skin of your opponent (winning before you even step foot onto the pitch) is having no class....then he has it in spades.

The guy is a born winner, and if fans don't want him because they didn't like him at Chelsea......then i pity them.

I don't dislike Mourihno simply because he riled up Ferguson and Wenger at the time, and I don't like them both. But if you look at it, Jose is classless and totally disrespectful at times. I don't want this club to be 'all about Mourihno's antics', and that's how he thrives. It's all about him.

Plus, his teams are generally defensive, play a more systematic game than Rafa, the only difference being is that he is more prone to 'hissy fits' during a game (such as changing a player after 10 mins) and that is down to his character again.

Fact is, Rafa is the only manager to have really got under his skin. He's never outsmarted Rafa.

[red g]

Being honest, i only hated him purely because he was at Chelsea, and winning things. If he was our manager, and got under peoples skin the way he did to us, Mancs, Wenger et al we would love the guy.

If not taking any **** and speaking your mind, getting under the skin of your opponent (winning before you even step foot onto the pitch) is having no class....then he has it in spades.

The guy is a born winner, and if fans don't want him because they didn't like him at Chelsea......then i pity them.

really? the cup successes at Porto were out of the ordinary but then so was Rafa's all Mourinho has proved is if he goes to the best team and has the most money he will be a success. Not saying he cant do it at Liverpool ( i have my doubts though)