Liverpool v Stoke - Post match anguish thread

[Mattshark]

you dont need to preach to me what he did in valencia because I was in spain when he achieved it.

when will this turn around come ? Who will be the catalyst for it ?

I just cannot see how you can possible think that rafa can turn this around because we have been playing **** football all season, we have conceded shed loads of goals all season and our attacking play has been awful.

He divides opinion wherever he goes amongst players and fans. When he left valencia half of the supporters were happy and the other half were disppointed.

Half of the players were annoyed the other overjoyed. Kily Gonzalez the great argentinian left winger was being messed around by benitez (like he has done with aquilani, keane, bellamy, babel and crouch) and in a match he was subbed and he came off and pushed benitez.

Anyway, can you point to any one thing that you think proves that you are right ? Where do you think this revival will come from and i dont for one second believe that if rafa continues on we will finish fourth.

Yeah I sure they were happy as he left after 2 titles in 3 years.

That just show Gonazalez to be a tit.

How has he messed those players around? Seriously you are talking ****e.
Babel has played ****
Keane was not good enough
Bellamy was not good enough and attacked Riise
Crouch or Torres, you decide
Aquilani has been getting to match fitness.

[The Erectile Banana]

Lucas played well and was more advanced than usual. If his name was Stevie Spearing a lot of Reds would ****ing love him, or at least show a lot more patience. Lucas is doing well.

Lucas has been our most consistent outfield player this season.

[Mattshark]

But the question is, will Rafa play with these two or will he refer to type and set us up not to concede rather than try and take the game to our opponents?

Today was a rarer occasion of being set up not to concede and the reason for that is low confidence. It isn't type for us.

[Leyton388]

6 wins in 22 now

[billd]

Well I'm totally gutted but I cannot believe the drivel being written on here.

We were never, ever, EVER gonna go there today and play champagne football. The performance IMO was just what the doctor ordered. FFS we showed heart, guts and some ****ing fight for once. I've been wondering if those players cared, especially after Reading, and now I know they do. They really do. So in that sense I'm pleased.

Reina was outstanding, as were Lucas and Kyrgiakos. Skrtel was much better, as was Insua.

We got back to basics and put some foundations in place to move forward. I had no confidence for the Spurs game and today has given me some. Should've won anyway after that utterly disgraceful decision from that CUNT LEE Mason...and how did Dirk miss that at the end (what a ball from Fabio too)?

Common Sense. What's going on.

[Pippo]

Good solid gritty performance, robbed of a clear pen by the ref, and Kuyt should have buried his chance.

We defended corners, free-kicks and throw-ins really well for the entire game, then allowed one header to carry all the way across the six-yard line to the back post to concede the goal.

Lucas had a superb game, as did Kyrgiakos and Reina. Pick any one of the three for MOM for me. Good to see Mascher back in there, but with him and Lucas you don't get any creativity down the middle. Wouldn't have mattered if we'd ground out the win though.

Thought N'Gog was dreadful, again. At one stage I thought the kid had the potential to develop into a decent player for us. Now I think he's just the new Neil Mellor. Has a knack of getting the odd goal, but his all-round play is nowhere near good enough. If Riera's fit then Aurelio has to replace Insua at left-back asap too. Yes, we look more solid with him in front of Insua, but you're sacrificing an attacking position to cover for failings at left-back.

All in all, given that most people on here seemed to be thinking we'd get beat, it's not such a bad result. Given the context of the game it's a terrible result in a game we deserved to win. I'm happy with the response from the team after Wednesday, but naturally disappointed with the result. Hopefully we can build on this for the Spurs game now.

This

[The Erectile Banana]

you dont need to preach to me what he did in valencia because I was in spain when he achieved it.

when will this turn around come ? Who will be the catalyst for it ?

I just cannot see how you can possible think that rafa can turn this around because we have been playing **** football all season, we have conceded shed loads of goals all season and our attacking play has been awful.

He divides opinion wherever he goes amongst players and fans. When he left valencia half of the supporters were happy and the other half were disppointed.

Half of the players were annoyed the other overjoyed. Kily Gonzalez the great argentinian left winger was being messed around by benitez (like he has done with aquilani, keane, bellamy, babel and crouch) and in a match he was subbed and he came off and pushed benitez.

Anyway, can you point to any one thing that you think proves that you are right ? Where do you think this revival will come from and i dont for one second believe that if rafa continues on we will finish fourth.

It should also be pointed out that Rafa did not really build that great Valencia team. He inhereted most of those players from Hector Cuper, players who had gotten the club to two European Cup finals. He already had all the raw materials there to work with.

[Mattshark]

It should also be pointed out that Rafa did not really build that great Valencia team. He inhereted most of those players from Hector Cuper, players who had gotten the club to two European Cup finals. He already had all the raw materials there to work with.

But Cuper never did what Rafa did with them did he.

[DeeTheDog]

But the question is, will Rafa play with these two or will he refer to type and set us up not to concede rather than try and take the game to our opponents?

Maxi barely touched the ball and in his one opportunity he was easily ushered out. Reira has been out for a considerable period after getting injured after being rushed back. I don't think today was reverting to type, simply putting out our fittest team in which proved a very physical game.

[The Erectile Banana]

But Cuper never did what Rafa did with them did he.

Well no, but they were already a successful side. Rafa did a great job winning two league titles for them but the framework for success was already there. It's a lot easier to continue on a successful route than to attempt to build something from scratch. That's where I think Rafa has hit a brick wall here.

[The Erectile Banana]

Here's the Premier League table from just before Christmas for every season since Rafa has taken over.


2004-05 Pts

1 Chelsea 43
2 Arsenal 38
3 Everton 37
4 Manchester United 34
5 Middlesbrough 32
6 Liverpool 28



2005-06

1 Chelsea 46
2 Manchester United 37
3 Liverpool 31
4 Tottenham Hotspur 31
5 Bolton Wanderers 30
6 Wigan Athletic 28
7 Manchester City 27
8 Arsenal 26



2006-07
pts

1 Manchester United 47
2 Chelsea 45
3 Liverpool 34
4 Arsenal 33
5 Bolton Wanderers 33
6 Portsmouth 32
7 Tottenham Hotspur 28
8 Everton 27

2007-08

1 Arsenal 43
2 Manchester United 42
3 Chelsea 37
4 Manchester City 34
5 Liverpool 33
6 Everton 30
7 Portsmouth 30
8 Aston Villa 29


2008-09

1 Liverpool 39
2 Chelsea 38
3 Aston Villa 34
4 Manchester United 32
5 Arsenal 31
6 Hull City 27
7 Everton 26
8 Fulham 24

2009-10

1 Chelsea 41
2 Manchester United 37
3 Arsenal 35
4 Aston Villa 35
5 Tottenham Hotspur 33
6 Manchester City 29
7 Birmingham City 28
8 Liverpool 27



Being realistic, we can probably write off that first season as the squad he inherited was a mess. Since then the minimum expectation going into every league season has been that we mount some sort of challenge for the title. With the exception of last season it hasn't happened. In every other season we have been trailing distantly by Christmas?

Is this good enough?

In previous seasons our poor league form has been masked by wonderful success in Europe, but our early exit this season has highlighted our domestic struggles.

The league title is the trophy that everyone involved with this club hungers to win. One title challenge in five years does not make good reading.

I posted this in another thread a little while ago. Would be interested to see reactions to it in this thread. Statistics stolen from another forum.

[Mattshark]

Well no, but they were already a successful side. Rafa did a great job winning two league titles for them but the framework for success was already there. It's a lot easier to continue on a successful route than to attempt to build something from scratch. That's where I think Rafa has hit a brick wall here.

It was but Cuper still didn't win anything.

No, I disagree, he has faced a much more difficult challenge here, but you can't say he has hit a wall on the basis of one season.

[SimonNo7]

Today was a rarer occasion of being set up not to concede and the reason for that is low confidence. It isn't type for us.

Maxi barely touched the ball and in his one opportunity he was easily ushered out. Reira has been out for a considerable period after getting injured after being rushed back. I don't think today was reverting to type, simply putting out our fittest team in which proved a very physical game.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree here guys as I believe looking at our teams that we are set up to not concede rather than be an attacking team. IMO Rafa prefers hard working players like Kuyt rather than creative players.

[5europeancups]

We were a whisker away from a great win. What a fantastic move at the end. When your luck is out, it's out.

I admire your positivity, but juding by the number of times you post I think you are just having a laugh...

like...

[Rich]

Well I'm totally gutted but I cannot believe the drivel being written on here.

We were never, ever, EVER gonna go there today and play champagne football. The performance IMO was just what the doctor ordered. FFS we showed heart, guts and some ****ing fight for once. I've been wondering if those players cared, especially after Reading, and now I know they do. They really do. So in that sense I'm pleased.

Reina was outstanding, as were Lucas and Kyrgiakos. Skrtel was much better, as was Insua.

We got back to basics and put some foundations in place to move forward. I had no confidence for the Spurs game and today has given me some. Should've won anyway after that utterly disgraceful decision from that CUNT LEE Mason...and how did Dirk miss that at the end (what a ball from Fabio too)?

Great post dude. For once we showed real fight and determination.