Does Rafa deserve one last throw of the dice?

[spud_gun]

No.

For one reason and one reason only.

Aqualani.

[bertie]

I understand your frustration 100% but he has proven that he can get us playing fantastic football.

Shouldn't we allow him one bad season or are we as bad as the Chavs.

Look at Wenger last season for instance, at times Arsenal looked completely clueless.

I take your Wenger but he's been obsessed by a "project" and in fairness it looks as if its going to plan. Rafa has been just chopping & changing to no effect ( in fact its been regressing). He has to go.

I've been thinking about this & I think rafa (and Houllier if I'm honest) has become almost "too close" to the club. Its extremely obvious that he loves the club but I feel that this impairs his judgement/performance. We need a detached focused manager who's only here for the glory.

[einar]

im with shaggy to some extent.

no matter what we achieve in the future istanbul will always be firmly etched into my heart. the achievement of that with such a mediocre squad show lots of luck but also a shed load of genius.

i also agree that he was only once given a decent budget and we finished second that season with massive improvement. part of me thinks that with a healthy budget he could bring a lot of success.

however, the flip side cannot be ignored. we play easily the worst football of the big four, our style of play is too regimented and cautious, rafa makes some utterly bewildering decisions, he has on several occasions shown bad judgement in the transfer market, he has too much faith in poor players, he doesnt know how to handle creative players, he is too politically astute for my liking and has managed to alienate probably two of the biggest pillars of this liverpool team in carra and gerrard.

if he stays half of the squad will want to leave. its something that needs to be looked at very carefully do we lose one manager of several key players.

I think this is wrong. IMO there are two players that will want to leave. Steve and Carra. And personally the manager is more important then any two players.

[Armchairkopite]

To be fair Rafa hasn't had us playing awe inspiring football except for last season. With Crouch we were mostly hoofing up to him. When all world class players were always fit (Torres, Gerrard, Alonso) and looking like world class players we were awesome. When they're not you need a plan B.

Wenger has it, Ferguson has it all the way to Z. Some other managers available (Mourinho, Mcleish, Moyes, etc) have additional strings too. Rafa, unfortunately doesn't. Its two defensive midfield holding all the time or nothing for him regardless of attacking fullbacks or not.

I agree that the good football took some time coming but the fact is that Aquiliani was bought to play in tandem with Mascherano so we have to believe that this season Rafa set out to play just one holding midfielder unfortunately circumstances have resulted in two defensive midfielders.

Mourinhos Chelsea was hardly awe inspiring and comparing managers like McLeish to Rafa is over the top imo.

[Armchairkopite]

No.

For one reason and one reason only.

Aqualani.

One mistake, really, wow.

[bertie]

I think this is wrong. IMO there are two players that will want to leave. Steve and Carra. And personally the manager is more important then any two players.

deffo. I'd have Steve Bruce as manager before I'd EVER tolerate a player(s) dictating the running of the club. If those 2 have a problem with the manager then they know where the door is.

[Armchairkopite]

I take your Wenger but he's been obsessed by a "project" and in fairness it looks as if its going to plan. Rafa has been just chopping & changing to no effect ( in fact its been regressing). He has to go.

I've been thinking about this & I think rafa (and Houllier if I'm honest) has become almost "too close" to the club. Its extremely obvious that he loves the club but I feel that this impairs his judgement/performance. We need a detached focused manager who's only here for the glory.

You could have a point about him being too close to the club but if he had not of been who would have exposed the cowboys?

I think this is wrong. IMO there are two players that will want to leave. Steve and Carra. And personally the manager is more important then any two players.

I agree, the rest where brought in by Rafa and Torres is always saying how Rafa has improved his game etc.

[spud_gun]

One mistake, really, wow.

Not quite.

Merely the straw that broke the camels back.

[Armchairkopite]

deffo. I'd have Steve Bruce as manager before I'd EVER tolerate a player(s) dictating the running of the club. If those 2 have a problem with the manager then they know where the door is.

Between the three of them Rafa and the above they are all very close to the club, I think its good to have the manager in control and close as Shankly and Paisley where, but Carra and Stevie carry to much weight imo.

[Armchairkopite]

Not quite.

Merely the straw that broke the camels back.

Lets be honest Aquiliani has hardly played, I dont think Rafa foresaw that. When Aquiliani has played hes showed flashes of being a top player so I wouldn't go writing him off just yet.

[Slinky Skills]

definitely one more season, i know he is stubborn and infuriates me with his predictable 70th minute changes and i agree that some of the players dont seem to like him because of his lack of warmth towards them (poor things), but name a manager out there that is more passionate and determined to win things for liverpool fans rather than adding to his cv.
maybe i am clutching at straws here but next season he might learn by his mistakes and realise that this is his last chance,and then we might see how much rafa loves the club and not himself.
if he fails again then so be it, bring in the cv boys

The man deserves another year in charge. If we're still poor after another season then he has to go.

Deep down I still believe he is the one to get us back to the good times. This season has been an absoloute shocker no doubt about it however we need to get it out of the way and start again.

The players have been a let down as they've not shown the necessary desire and character to get themselves out of the slump they've been in. Rafa maybe is also to blame but the players need to take the brunt of the blame here, a bad season all round.

Let's get it sorted for next year, a fresh start with everyone back. Get Aquilani some games, get Nando and Gerrard fit and most of all get some pride and a winning positive mentality back in to the club.

[BigChief]

I agree that the good football took some time coming but the fact is that Aquiliani was bought to play in tandem with Mascherano so we have to believe that this season Rafa set out to play just one holding midfielder unfortunately circumstances have resulted in two defensive midfielders.

Mourinhos Chelsea was hardly awe inspiring and comparing managers like McLeish to Rafa is over the top imo.

Agreed McLeish is unproven in prem, but he's not doing a bad job at the moment. The football is good and he's bringing the game out of his sub-standard players. Oh how we wish we could from ours. He's one of the lesser viable options should Rafa go. No hoofball from his teams.

[spud_gun]

Lets be honest Aquiliani has hardly played, I dont think Rafa foresaw that. When Aquiliani has played hes showed flashes of being a top player so I wouldn't go writing him off just yet.

He's hardly played because a) he was injured when we signed him b) he's not done much when we played him c) the manager is reluctant to play him against teams like Wigan and Lille. Hardly a resounding vote of confidence in the players ability.

As i said Aqualani is simply the straw that broke the camels back.

[Armchairkopite]

Agreed McLeish is unproven in prem, but he's not doing a bad job at the moment. The football is good and he's bringing the game out of his sub-standard players. Oh how we wish we could from ours. He's one of the lesser viable options should Rafa go. No hoofball from his teams.

You cannot be serious mate.

McLeish has had a bit of a decent run but hes not fit to knot Rafas tie.

One bad season does not make a bad manager, bar this season every other we have progressed in every department

[Slinky Skills]

He's hardly played because a) he was injured when we signed him b) he's not done much when we played him c) the manager is reluctant to play him against teams like Wigan and Lille. Hardly a resounding vote of confidence in the players ability.

As i said Aqualani is simply the straw that broke the camels back.

He needs to be given more time, you'd at least expect that from our fans.

I know he's not played much since we've signed him but I'm sure he will come good next year. This is an adjusting season for him, he's been out a long long time so we can't forget that. I trust Rafa to handle his situation properly and he will play him as and when he's ready.