Pack your bags Roy

[Red11]

I posted this in another thread, but better suited here i think...

Ok, I've had enough of the supreme idiot that is Hodgson, so apologies for the long post:

Player power is part & parcel of the modern game and only a strong, highly motivated, ruthless manager can hope to deal with it. That manager also needs wholehearted backing from the club, otherwise they become isolated and ultimately ineffective.

For me Rafa was one of only a small handful of managers in that category (Mouronho, Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelotti, Guardiola to name a few). Rafa, while he had the club's backing kept the team moving forward in his style. When that backing disappeared the lid on Pandora's Box was lifted and the game was up. Without the ability/authority to shift players who become too powerful you're a goner. Shanks did it, Dalglish did it, even Houllier bloody did it. Rafa lost the ability to do it, hence we're in the **** situation we find ourselves.

Unfortunately for me we need 2 things:
1. A proper world class manager, one that understands a big club mentality, where to win is the only driving force, where stature, gravitas & class are as important as fearless mentality on the pitch. Big clubs, especially LFC don't fear clubs, they fear us. We respect them. Roy doesn't even seem to know that the "This is Anfield" sign even exists let alone what it stands for. All managers since Shanks have revered that sign.

2. Give that manager free reign to ditch WHOEVER he wants, period. No and/if/buts. Get rid of and buy who he wants (within NESV's limits of course). Otherwise, forget it and get used to being Blackburn

I've nailed my colours to the mast, I always wanted Rafa to have 1 more season under new owners, fully backed. Didn't happen, that's life, but I've never liked or wanted Roy. He's a small minded manager with very limited ambition. Give Dalglish the reins, & AUTHORITY to discipline ANY player he sees fit until the new manager is appointed.

We need to start being Liverpool Football Club again, NOW!

[G]

Great read from RAWK

Expectations before the 2002/2003 season were high. In the years leading up to it, we had finished 4th, 3rd and 2nd. It was meant to be our year. Going fourteen games unbeaten at the beginning of the campaign had spirits running sky high. Nobody could have predicted that when Liverpool travelled up to Middlesbrough on November 9th – sitting top of the table - it would be twelve games and over two months before we would record our next league win. Gareth Southgate’s winner at the Riverside Stadium would be a defining moment in Houllier’s tenure. Had we come away with even just a 0-0 draw that day, who knows how things might have turned out?

Fast forward just under five months from the trip to Middlesbrough that sucker-punched the camp’s morale and I’m sat in a pub around Anfield. It’s around five o’clock and the passion from the stands has spilled out on to the Walton Breck Rd. Liverpool had just been beaten 2-1 by Manchester City. Nicolas Anelka – the man Houllier snubbed in favour of El Hadji Diouf – had just scored a last minute winner that made Champions League qualification improbable.

As is always the way when alcohol is involved, people were very opinionated. From being a side that was ready to end our long, long wait and bring home the league title at the beginning of the season, we were now apparently a team in need of a serious overhaul. “Remove the deadwood” was the buzz phrase. Diao, Biscan, Diouf, Cheyrou, Traore and… Jamie Carragher. All of them should have been on the next bus out of Liverpool in the summer rebuild.

Gerard Houllier had always seen Jamie Carragher as a full-back and fans were frustrated at how limited he was in that position. The illness to Markus Babbel saw Carragher shifted to new right-back position. Previously, he had spent his time on the left of the back four and while everybody involved in the “treble season” deserves credit, my lasting memory of Carragher in that position was him looking forward, surveying the scene that lay ahead of him, before swinging round like a protractor and playing a safe ball back to the goalkeeper. And sometimes that was when he was forty yards up the pitch. The narrow midfield that Houllier insisted on fielding made an attacking full-back a priority, but Carragher wasn’t that person.

The days of a “defender defends” were numbered. Arsenal opted to replace the great Lee Dixon and Nigel Winterburn with Lauren and Gio Van Brockhorst: two players with a greater sense of adventure. I think Houllier recognised this trend and in the 2003/2004 season, attempted to adjust his tactical approach. But I think when a manager goes against his own philosophies, it spells danger. Somewhere between trying to add some flair and creativity to the side in Houllier’s final year, we lost our shape and defensive discipline. Players like Diouf and Kewell were brought in, but I don’t think Houllier ever achieved the all-important balance. We may have outwitted Arsenal in the 2001 FA Cup final, but I remember sat at the Millennium Stadium in 2002 for the Community Shield just over a year later, seeing Arsene Wenger’s men absolutely run riot against us. They had speed, ability, strength. Simply put, they were a different animal (even if the score at the end only read 1-0).

Even in his final season, Houllier retained the same centre-back pairing that had served him well throughout 2000-2002 though: the “SH partnership”, Sami Hyypia and Stephane Henchoz. While they were both excellent readers of the game, neither had the pace to keep up with the ball over the top or in behind. Every success we had under Houllier was when we asked sides to play through us. It’s a negative tactic, but one we executed brilliantly at times.

Jamie Carragher was shifted out of the side as Steve Finnan was brought in at right-back and John Arne-Riise on the left. Whatever way you look at it, Houllier failed to realise Carragher’s potential. But Benitez didn’t. When he arrived in 2004, one of the first things he did was bring in Carragher and plant him alongside Sami Hyypia.

Benitez’s tactics were very different to Houllier’s. He wanted the side to push much further up the field. He wanted to squeeze the opposition and pressurize them when they were in possession. He did so at Valencia, even though Roberto Ayala and Mauricio Pellegrino also suffered from the same problem Henchoz and Hyypia did. Over twenty yards, neither of them would keep up with your average striker, which goes to show the effectiveness of their midfield. Possession is the greatest form of defence and controlling the ball is Benitez’s ideal. But the back-up plan is to have every one of his players pressing, pushing the opposition back. You can almost picture it like a rugby scrum. Everyone working individually would lose, but together you can outmuscle the other team.

On Benitez, Carragher said: "I am a bit more mature. I have had a great deal of help off Rafael Benitez as well. He has certainly helped us as a back four and he is a big student of the game.

"He studied the Milan team of the late 80s and early 90s and showed us videos of them and he is determined for us to be as solid and tight as possible.”

Benitez showed that you don’t necessarily need to have fast centre-halves to play higher up the pitch. Players like Sissoko, Mascherano and even Kuyt were key in closing the spaces in high areas of the pitch. It was said that his sides “defended as a team and attacked as a team”. The importance of closing down defenders before they could distribute the ball was as important as closing down a striker to him. With that said, he was known during his time at Valencia to use Miroslav Djukic for the pace he brought to the defence. The players he earmarked for the future at centre half at Liverpool – Skrtel and Agger – were also quicker over the deck than their predecessors. Perhaps a coincidence, but more likely it was Benitez’s reaction to adapting to the Premier League.

Rafael Benitez brought a lot to Liverpool Football Club, but the decision to move Carragher into the centre was clearly a masterstroke. There is no denying it. His performances in the Champions League campaign of 2004/2005 were simply stunning. The sight of Carragher with “cramp in both his groins” as Andy Townsend put it, stretching to knock out an AC Milan cross into our penalty area deep into extra time will live long in the memory. Admittedly, he was part of the backline that was torn apart by the genius of Pirlo, Kaka, Crespo and Shevchenko that night, but by the end, his contribution was every bit as vital as the goals scored by Gerrard, Smicer and Alonso.

So then, what has changed? Well, first of all, Rafa Benitez is no longer here. We’re now under the leadership of Roy Hodgson, whose approach to the game is reminiscent to Gerard Houllier – the man who overlooked the talent of Carragher. The difference now of course is that Jamie Carragher’s reputation is very different.

Roy Hodgson’s job was to “steady the ship”, rather than “rock the boat”, but the whispers on the stands and among those that have watched us closely is that the latter is closer to what we require.

Another candidate for the position of manager in the summer was Manuel Pellegrini who did an awful lot of good for Real Madrid, despite not managing to win any silverware.

If Jose Mourinho goes on to win a major honour with Madrid– and who would bet against him? – then what Pellegrini brought to the table shouldn’t be overlooked. You can’t forget that he recorded a magnificent 96 points total in his only season there and he did so playing a great brand of football. His side scored over 100 goals. More importantly though, he went against the grain. Real Madrid have had over a dozen managers since the turn of the Millennium, but few of them have gone against Madrid’s accepted conventions. Capello did and won them the league. He ignored the boos to Emerson and persisted with him for what he brought his side. Similarly Manuel Pellegrini pinpointed a real burden and dealt with it emphatically, by curbing the ludicrous influence that Guti and Raul had on the dressing room. I can’t help but feel that it’s the sort of “rule with an iron fist” that we so desperately require.

What any manager needs to say when he first walks into a club is that nobody’s position in the side is secure. There should be no comfort zone. What Hodgson has done is almost the polar opposite. He told Gerrard he can practically play wherever it is he feels most comfortable. He told Joe Cole he can play in his favoured, central position and he’s awarded Jamie Carragher a two year contract even though his performances have been on the wane for a good eighteen months.

Giving a player whose pace and acceleration has deteriorated an extension on his contract sent out all the wrong messages. With that said, under Hodgson and the system he plays, Carragher can squeeze out a few more years. Sat deep and inviting pressure onto us requires defenders with a good reading of the game, with the ability to win their own personal battle, players with strength and determination.

(Incidentally, part of why Glen Johnson is struggling is down to the fact that he is being asked to play along a deep backline that doesn’t push up the field. Daniel Alves and Maicon would struggle playing with such tactics and they are regarded as the best right-backs in the world.)

The fact that Carragher excels in Hodgson’s tactics is symptomatic of what is wrong with us at the moment. Jamie Carragher’s days were numbered playing as a centre-half in a side that presses the opposition high up the field, because his legs have gone and his distribution is poor. Even before news broke of Daniel Agger’s injury, it was clear that Roy didn’t fancy him. The comments that Agger came out with and then quickly retracted had every Liverpool fan nodding their head in agreement. Centre-halves in the modern game need football ability. Vermaelen, Pique, Ferdinand, Lucio, Carvalho. The “if in doubt, hit it out” mantra is dying out.

I found it interesting that John Henry spoke about Arsene Wenger as a man who has delivered to Arsenal his ideal for how a sports team should be run. When Wenger first arrived at Arsenal, he bought players with experience and relied on the old heads like Adams and Keown. But as the Premier League developed, so did Wenger’s philosophy. There is little room for players over the age of 30 and, the few that do make it, are given short contracts, with the emphasis being on who is going to replace them in the long-term. I don’t think extending Carragher’s contract was a terrible idea, I just thought the timing of it was bizarre. It’s vital now that we look into the future and begin to faze players like Carragher out. Use him more on the training field than the team sheet, to help the progress of the younger players.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=266377.0

[squaddie]

Great read from RAWK

What any manager needs to say when he first walks into a club is that nobody’s position in the side is secure. There should be no comfort zone. What Hodgson has done is almost the polar opposite. He told Gerrard he can practically play wherever it is he feels most comfortable. He told Joe Cole he can play in his favoured, central position and he’s awarded Jamie Carragher a two year contract even though his performances have been on the wane for a good eighteen months.

Giving a player whose pace and acceleration has deteriorated an extension on his contract sent out all the wrong messages. With that said, under Hodgson and the system he plays, Carragher can squeeze out a few more years. Sat deep and inviting pressure onto us requires defenders with a good reading of the game, with the ability to win their own personal battle, players with strength and determination.


http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/...topic=266377.0

Fantastic read..... IIRC Paisley coined the phrase 'You should never let a player lose their legs under you.' Carragher is a legend always was and always will be.... But the mans a liability... The comment of the 'mantra if in dont hit it out' dyin on its arse is spot on.

[Neil Young]

... and Kevin Godley?

[Lecter]

That facebook page reckons the Carra incident was him confronting fans who were chanting for Dalglish.

The full story according to that Facebook site


Sack Roy Hodgson WHEN THE TEAM WERE GOING DOWN THE TUNNEL THE FANS STARTING SINGING FOR KING KENNY AND CARRA CONFRONTED THEM AND CALLED THEM "PRICKS"


Now I'm a great admirer of Carragher (as a man and player) but there has been a few rumours doing the rounds regarding him (nothing to do with his personal life) and frankly it is becoming increasingly difficult to carry on supporting him

IF he has said the above then that is the final straw for me

[Rich]

The crowd need to call for his head... It's simple. It might leave a bitter taste but needs must... It cannot carry on.

[lickedlollipop]

i don't buy that story about carra

[Fernandinho]

Quality post from RAWK

[Lecter]

1. a lot of its circumstansial

2. a lot of it isn't

1. Jamies clan , his arl fella and mates who i'd see at nearly every away game calling for Rafa's head ... very much every other week it has to be said

1. Absolutely no support for Rafa publically in his final months when he knew he was on the ropes from senior players ?

1. and friend of the show (anti rafa spin machine ) Talksport will have LFC's 23 working for us over the summer

2. Jamie , and i quote ... '' we believed it was time for a change of manager , for the GOOD OF THE CLUB '' ( i believe Stevie said something similar around the same time too ) early in the new season

2. the texting of Purslow to the 2 senior players which i've often mentioned and the disparaging tones of them and will do again here

2. his friendship/alliance with Bascombe and specifically their NOTW Anti Benitez agenda which Rafa was fairly and rightly outspoken about

2 . and the coup d'etat

the £90,000 contract extension signed on the big news day ...NESV takeover
which Rafa wouldn't sanction in his tenure as manager of Liverpool Football Club

now ,do you want me to link the dots ?

I've heard similar rumours to this plus a couple of others you havent mentioned that I wont go into

Its sad that perhaps a great servant of the club is going to have his career tarnished by his actions over the last 6 months

[Craig_H]

I've heard similar rumours to this plus a couple of others you havent mentioned that I wont go into

Its sad that perhaps a great servant of the club is going to have his career tarnished by his actions over the last 6 months

That's pretty pathetic mate.

[Lecter]

i don't buy that story about carra

Which story are you referring to

Because as merlboo pointed out there are an awful lot of them

I've heard the stories myself from people that are ABSOLUTELY cast iron

[Lecter]

oh ... and his support of Hodgson tonight in the face of a barrage of ''Go Now '' taunts from the away end at the end of the game

.

There was a tweet the other day that said Hodgson only has 2 allies in the camp

One of which is wavering

I assume the other standing by him is Carragher

[lickedlollipop]

Which story are you referring to

Because as merlboo pointed out there are an awful lot of them

I've heard the stories myself from people that are ABSOLUTELY cast iron

..that he shouted at our fans ?

[Lecter]

I agree it's pathetic how deep we defend, particularly away from home, but you have no choice against Delap's throws. No off-side from throw ins.

If you held a higher line and pressed higher then it would probably mean less throw ins in the danger positions

[Fernandinho]

I am struggling to believe that stuff about Carra calling them pricks. Not because I don't believe the source, just because it seems like such an utterly stupid thing. Also, having always pictured Carra as this Liverpool legend, a straight up character it seems so weird that he would try and lengthen his own career at the risk of the rest of the club and against the will of the fans. I always thought Carra would be the kind of guy who would be the first to know he isn't up to it anymore...