Pack your bags Roy

[kris90210]

I don't recall him being ITK?

[Arn]

Was he someone who worked for the BBC that posted on Koptalk?

Yes. Collected Chelsea shirts IIRC

[Lecter]

From The Times .

Liverpool need to consider the bigger picture

Guillem Balague

Liverpool's new owners, NESV have taken charge of a headless institution. One lost and lacking direction, it is being pulled in different routes by people that, with the best of intentions, think they know the way. It is the sign of a weak club when a member of the medical staff, a player or an employee feels strong enough to try and lead in the search for that elusive ‘Liverpool way’.

It seems that a huge number of fans have decided Roy Hodgson, the manager, must go. Yet that highlights the main reason why you should never allow supporters to direct clubs as they don’t appear capable of looking beyond the latest results. Pointing the finger of blame at the manager is the most simplistic analysis of what is wrong at Liverpool because the club's ills go way beyond Hodgson and his front line staff. They are rooted in the club's current lack of a philosophy, of where they are headed and how they are going to get there.

It is a real shame because it doesn’t need to be so. There are many talented individuals working behind the scenes, all of whom are more than capable of helping the club get to where it wants to be - yet because nobody seems to know where that is, their talent and effort is going to waste.
For example, without an overriding philosophy regarding how Liverpool FC should play, the youth academy has no future goal or ambition. The academy should provide the platform, the foundations upon which the future of the club is built, yet nobody knows what shape the groundwork should take because nobody has seen the final plans for the building itself.

We know what the archetypal Barcelona player looks like; we talk of Arsenal players being typical of a certain set of characteristics. What does it mean to talk about a typical Liverpool player these days? What standards do we expect from them? We’ve been hearing a lot about Damien Comolli’s appreciation of sabermetrics, learning about the financial model that NESV wishes to introduce – which reveals something of the economic plan, but little about the footballing vision. In other words, we’re learning what Liverpool’s stars of the future will look like on the balance sheet, but have no idea what they’ll look like on the football pitch.

In mitigation, these are early days for the new owners and for Comolli, but I am impatient to learn what shape their footballing vision will take and have little interest in their short term plans for January. Large sections of the media have been focusing on the micro this week: on the relationship between director of football (or strategy) and coach, when the macro is what matters.

Despite what the British press may think, such director/manager relationships can work but the constant focus on the individuals and personalities is a distraction, when what really matters is the vision, the strategy and a clear understanding of everyone's role within it.

Meanwhile, NESV and Comolli will have to deal with the confusion over who is in charge. For example, there is a doctor working at the club who has been allowed to make sports science a priority. Nothing wrong with that, you might think, a characteristic of many clubs in the modern age; however, this particular doctor has a level of influence over team selection unseen anywhere else.

Then, there is a manager who recently enjoyed great success working with very different types of players at a very different club. His methodologies are very different to those that players at Liverpool are accustomed to – which has two potential outcomes: either they embrace his way, or there is a breakdown in communication. At the moment, there is a bit of both as some players trust the manager, others need to be convinced.

On the surface, the fact that the new owners have invited the fans to give their thoughts on the club appears a positive step and has been welcomed by many supporters groups. But we only ever see the fans given the power to shape the direction of the club at a time of weakness, because it is at those times when those in charge need the most vocal elements of support on board.

But, as stated above, football fans should not run football clubs. Liverpool does not need a reactionary leadership, but a long term plan put in place by those who know how – and then adhered to until it reaches its conclusion, even if, in the beginning, the fans can't quite understand why it’s being done.

NESV have their work cut out, and there is an issue regarding several players currently at the club who signed contracts under the previous owners. The former owners were preparing Liverpool for a sale, and needed to retain as many big name players on their books to elevate the club’s value. In order to get them to pen deals, concessions were made and clauses included in those contracts that favour the players but leave the club vulnerable.

It places the club in a conundrum, because in order to avoid some of the top players activating those clauses, they will need to do the very thing that I was previously warning against: investing in short term quick fixes. It is a pivotal moment for Liverpool, should they invest in impact signings now, in order to convince current stars to stay, or do they play the long game and ride the storm in the immediate short term? Personally, I would prefer the latter.

One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. But, if the club has lost its way, that has nothing to do with the nationalities of the players; because individuals like Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina are as representative of the Liverpool way as anybody else, whatever is written on their passport.

It is because of the admiration, love and respect that I have for the city that gave me a home and the club that made me recapture a love for the game that I make no apologies for the fact that much of the above is perhaps tinged with too much passion. It is sad to see such a wonderful institution floundering, but with the right vision, there is also hope for the future - it's up to those who have the privilege to make it so.

[Buzzo]

^

Hard to argue with any of that. And a lot of worry news regarding player contracts. I actually agree that it as as bad an idea to let fans decide who should manage a club as much as players.

However, and this is the key point, there is a total lack of direction at the club. And the one person who could unite all factions is the manager, and sadly we do not have a manager capable of taking us to the next level right now.

So, it's still Pack your bags Roy for me.

[Roboklopp]

Agree completely mate. If the manager isn't gonna give the club a direction and vision, then who the **** is? I don't think Comoli is experienced enough for that.

[Reece]

"But, if the club has lost its way, that has nothing to do with the nationalities of the players; because individuals like Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina are as representative of the Liverpool way as anybody else, whatever is written on their passport."

[JHP]

I think that's a very good analysis. I wonder, is Guillem looking for an internal position to influence things?

[dww]

In general it is a good analysis but if Roy is part of determining what the Liverpool Way is going forward we are ****ed. A unifying philosophy from top to bottom at the club is only a worthwhile idea if it is a good philosophy capable of winning matches. Teaching the 9 year olds at the club to line up in two rows of four will no usher in a golden age of beautiful football.

I actually think when referring to the fans opinion of the fans Ballague is condescending and unfair. The complaint is not just with the results - plenty were wiling to give him time before they saw the style in which he plays.

If we want a footballing philosophy the most important person to embody that is the manager. For a long time the Barcelona managers have all looked to play football a certain way and while Cruyff has been hugely influential only the right choice of managers has ensured that the way of play makes it onto the pitch.

[JHP]

His comments on setting philosophy and aligning everything that happens at the club to that is spot on and aligned fully to what I've heard NESV saying.

I think Ballague is recognising the manager is a problem but says it very tactfully "there is a manager who recently enjoyed great success working with very different types of players at a very different club. His methodologies are very different to those that players at Liverpool are accustomed to – which has two potential outcomes: either they embrace his way, or there is a breakdown in communication" .

When he refers to fans wanting rid of Hodgson I don't think he's saying Hodgson is the right man. Instead I think he's just recognising that changing manager won't solve the current problems at the club - the philosophy / vision / direction etc needs sorting first.

[Danoner Forrest]

i am clearly fed up with Hodgson like everyone else.

I cant understand though how ex-liverpool players and legends cant see the blindingly obvious crap tactics and negativity the he has brought.

I watch .tv and I can appreciate that they have an agenda to support the manager but surely the massive level of anti-Hodge feelings should be represented on their shows. Prentice, someone from LFC weekly and some other guy called Andy who I dont know really glossed over Hodge's obvious deficiencies last night on a show and seem completely oblivious to what is going on. I cant understand a certain level of support but surely surely truth should be spoken.

David Fairclough, he commentates on reserves and I feel (and have felt for 2+ years) that he is ultra-critical of 'kids' in his commentaries always quick to have a go and point out where young reserves are going wrong and his almost weekly quote of 'Well its not an easy choice tonight, no stand out performers' when asked for his reserve MOM. Yet he hasnt had 1 critical word about Hodgo's ****e. Not one. Lawrenson, Hansen, Whelan, Houghton all were extremely quick to jump on Rafa and not one has had an insightful comment on Hodgo's garbage. All point to the 'mess the club was left in' yet none comment on the utter utter **** that Hodgo has bought. None of them seem to be able to see or comment on his utter ****e tactics, I find it now almost more irritating than Hodgo himself.

[Shaggy]

i am clearly fed up with Hodgson like everyone else.

I cant understand though how ex-liverpool players and legends cant see the blindingly obvious crap tactics and negativity the he has brought.

I watch .tv and I can appreciate that they have an agenda to support the manager but surely the massive level of anti-Hodge feelings should be represented on their shows. Prentice, someone from LFC weekly and some other guy called Andy who I dont know really glossed over Hodge's obvious deficiencies last night on a show and seem completely oblivious to what is going on. I cant understand a certain level of support but surely surely truth should be spoken.

David Fairclough, he commentates on reserves and I feel (and have felt for 2+ years) that he is ultra-critical of 'kids' in his commentaries always quick to have a go and point out where young reserves are going wrong and his almost weekly quote of 'Well its not an easy choice tonight, no stand out performers' when asked for his reserve MOM. Yet he hasnt had 1 critical word about Hodgo's ****e. Not one. Lawrenson, Hansen, Whelan, Houghton all were extremely quick to jump on Rafa and not one has had an insightful comment on Hodgo's garbage. All point to the 'mess the club was left in' yet none comment on the utter utter **** that Hodgo has bought. None of them seem to be able to see or comment on his utter ****e tactics, I find it now almost more irritating than Hodgo himself.

It's ****ing weird alright and yeah, totally irritating.

[dww]

His comments on setting philosophy and aligning everything that happens at the club to that is spot on and aligned fully to what I've heard NESV saying.

I think Ballague is recognising the manager is a problem but says it very tactfully "there is a manager who recently enjoyed great success working with very different types of players at a very different club. His methodologies are very different to those that players at Liverpool are accustomed to – which has two potential outcomes: either they embrace his way, or there is a breakdown in communication" .

When he refers to fans wanting rid of Hodgson I don't think he's saying Hodgson is the right man. Instead I think he's just recognising that changing manager won't solve the current problems at the club - the philosophy / vision / direction etc needs sorting first.

It's this bit that annoys me:

It seems that a huge number of fans have decided Roy Hodgson, the manager, must go. Yet that highlights the main reason why you should never allow supporters to direct clubs as they don’t appear capable of looking beyond the latest results.

I think people have looked past the latest result and think that Roy's philosophy will lead to more awful performances. We've seen the results of his system at Fulham - it was good for them but not going to win anything of real note. We've looked at his record which is less than stellar. It's the idea that our only complaint is that we lost to Stoke (and drew with Wigan) and if it wasn't for that we would be right behind him. Many of us weren't behind him when we beat Chelsea because we still thought he was the wrong man for the job.

[Rich]

It's fair to say Ballague is doing the majority of fans a disservice in his latest piece.

If we'd seen a glimmer of something better on the horizon then most fans would be cutting Roy some slack, as it stands its not just his alehouse tactics, its not just his uncanny ability to blames others for defeats, its not just his inability to concede we've been appalling in most games, its not just his appalling record in last summer's transfer window, its not just his complete lack of understanding of what the club is about, its not just asking some of better players to change their excellent ways to inferior ones, and its not just his 'old man' gesturing from the sidelines.

It's all of it - the whole package - the whole flipping awfulness of Roy Hodgson that has the fans up in arms.

[Vermilion]

It's fair to say Ballague is doing the majority of fans a disservice in his latest piece.

If we'd seen a glimmer of something better on the horizon then most fans would be cutting Roy some slack, as it stands its not just his alehouse tactics, its not just his uncanny ability to blames others for defeats, its not just his inability to concede we've been appalling in most games, its not just his appalling record in last summer's transfer window, its not just his complete lack of understanding of what the club is about, its not just asking some of better players to change their excellent ways to inferior ones, and its not just his 'old man' gesturing from the sidelines.

It's all of it - the whole package - the whole flipping awfulness of Roy Hodgson that has the fans up in arms.

A very good appraisal of what the media seem to be forgetting ...ignoring!

[Fredo]

We are more and more seeing the reasons what is going wrong with the club and when it started to go wrong. It wasn't just Roy Dodgson's appointment, but it goes way down to a couple of years or more.