Soto

[Muddled]

If Roy wants to play Soto then fine, drop Carragher or Skrtel and play Kelly at right back

[cough]Skrtel[/cough]

[Craig_H]

Only because everyone's expectations were rock bottom.

I can't see for the life of me how we progress and evolve as a football club with a 30 year old as 4th choice in any position.I'll happily admit Soto is playing well now but that is more a damning inditment on our play and circumstances that we are relying on him.

Man U with Evans or Smalling
Arsenal with Djourou
Chelsea with Mancianne
Tottenham have a lad called Caulker who is going to be a really good player
Man City played a young lad earlier in the season but can't remember his name.

All those clubs are planning for the future and easing young players in here and there, we're going backwards ffs because Roy can't trust Kelly at home to Blackburn then comes out in the press comparing Carragher to Carlos ****ing Alberto.
The same Jamie Carragher who refused to play right back for Rafa away to Middlesborough when we lost 2-0.

If Roy wants to play Soto then fine, drop Carragher or Skrtel and play Kelly at right back

That's a slightly odd thing to say. Whether Soto is 30 or 13, if he's the best man for the job, then he's the right man for the job.

Xavi turns 31 in January, and i'd sure as hell have him.

I'd much rather have Kyrgiakos than someone like Smalling, Djourou or Mancienne. And for this 'Caulker' kid, how do we know he's 'going to be a really good player' ?

Soto is doing the job for us and doing it well - much rather have that, than someone who 'is going to be' a good player (speculatively) or someone who 'might' do a good job.

[Rich]

Krygiakos is doing well

Looked a poor buy at the start of last season, and made a few high profile clangers, but he's settled down and actually looks like he gives a damn which is refreshing.

If his desire and passion of the game can rub off on our young centrebacks then, for me, that's another plus point to having him around.

[Shaggy]

Soto rules

[elrichio86]

Why does a backup centre back need to be younger than Soto. When he needs replacing he'll be replaced, either by a new purchase or by one of our reserves or youth players. Soto has been far better than meh this year, he's finding some good form so let's give the guy the credit that is due and be glad he's pushing our other CBs for a first team place.

He doesn't. But in terms of planning for the future, the 4th choice slot is ideal for an up and coming youngster.

In an ideal situation you'd have your first choice pairing, an experienced 3rd choice of good enough quality to step in when needed (Carra is at this stage IMO, same as we did with Sami), and then a young 4th choice who is gaining experience ready to take over from either of the 1st choices in a couple of years.

Plus whilst we may regard Soto as 4th choice, I think Roy sees him as 3rd choice and Agger 4th .

[RichC]

Soto has been our best defender if not out field player this season.

He was a good, sound buy for what he cost us - if he keeps himself in good shape then he's got a good few years left - he's only 31 afterall!

[The Birdman]

He doesn't. But in terms of planning for the future, the 4th choice slot is ideal for an up and coming youngster.

In an ideal situation you'd have your first choice pairing, an experienced 3rd choice of good enough quality to step in when needed (Carra is at this stage IMO, same as we did with Sami), and then a young 4th choice who is gaining experience ready to take over from either of the 1st choices in a couple of years.

Plus whilst we may regard Soto as 4th choice, I think Roy sees him as 3rd choice and Agger 4th .

Is exactly right, I'm not saying Soto has been bad what I'm saying is to progress, to attract top young players to keep moving forward rather than standing still or regressing the 4th choice for most positions should be a young, promising player.
If he wants to keep Soto then sell Skrtel (preferably) that then leaves Wilson as our 4th choice.

There was a brilliant article the other day saying how Wenger wasn't sure about Ashley Cole, sent him on loan to Crystal Palace as a 19 year old still not sure, Sylivinho got injured and Wenger had to play him and the rest as they say is history.

Soto appears to be playing better because we are 15 yards deeper so he just heads it (a la Hangerland at Fulham) give him 5 games in a team that is squeezed up 15 yards further, pressing to win the ball back and he will be exposed.
He isn't going to get any better, Wilson and Kelly have every chance of improving

[The Birdman]

That's a slightly odd thing to say. Whether Soto is 30 or 13, if he's the best man for the job, then he's the right man for the job.

Xavi turns 31 in January, and i'd sure as hell have him.

I'd much rather have Kyrgiakos than someone like Smalling, Djourou or Mancienne. And for this 'Caulker' kid, how do we know he's 'going to be a really good player' ?

Soto is doing the job for us and doing it well - much rather have that, than someone who 'is going to be' a good player (speculatively) or someone who 'might' do a good job.

Because I've watched Caulker play 15 odd times and there is absolutely no doubt he will be a PL player, granted that is only my opinion but barring injury he will make it. He is 18, 6ft 3in, quick enough and has already played 50 league games.
He is on loan to Bristol City for the rest of the season, next time thay are on tv have a look for yourself and see what you think


Oh and comparing Xavi to Soto is a rubbish arguement even you know that, a better arguement would be would we have accepted Sol Campbell on a free in the summer??? 99% would say no because he is too old, slow for the PL and blocking young players progression, if you think Soto is the 'best man for the job' then we all as fans need to have a look at where our expectations are and the standards we expect from a Liverpool player.
A couple of wholehearted displays doesn't mean he is the answer, lets see how he does if selected against Chelsea.

[RedReet]

Because I've watched Caulker play 15 odd times and there is absolutely no doubt he will be a PL player, granted that is only my opinion but barring injury he will make it. He is 18, 6ft 3in, quick enough and has already played 50 league games.
He is on loan to Bristol City for the rest of the season, next time thay are on tv have a look for yourself and see what you think


Oh and comparing Xavi to Soto is a rubbish arguement even you know that, a better arguement would be would we have accepted Sol Campbell on a free in the summer??? 99% would say no because he is too old, slow for the PL and blocking young players progression, if you think Soto is the 'best man for the job' then we all as fans need to have a look at where our expectations are and the standards we expect from a Liverpool player.
A couple of wholehearted displays doesn't mean he is the answer, lets see how he does if selected against Chelsea.

A lot of people said similar things about Sami during Houllier’s last season. Losing him 5 years later was still a devastating blow for the club.

[The Birdman]

A lot of people said similar things about Sami during Houllier’s last season. Losing him 5 years later was still a devastating blow for the club.

Mate, there really is no comparing Sami and Soto is there??

To make this clear again I am not criticising Soto as a player or a person, what I'm saying is we shouldn't have 2 centre backs in Carra and Soto who are both the wrong side of 30 and both have the turning circle of the SS Great Britain.
It hasn't worked for anyone except AC Milan.

[RichC]

Mate, there really is no comparing Sami and Soto is there??

To make this clear again I am not criticising Soto as a player or a person, what I'm saying is we shouldn't have 2 centre backs in Carra and Soto who are both the wrong side of 30 and both have the turning circle of the SS Great Britain.
It hasn't worked for anyone except AC Milan.

You are probably right in terms of them playing at the back together - at the moment Carra should be warming the bench IMO - at present the form player at the back is Soto.

All fully fit I'd look at Soto and Agger at the back with Jono and Aurelio as the full backs.

[dww]

I do feel we need to look at the make up of our defense but at the minute non of the players on our books for that position are dominant aerially other than Soto. I do think that given we now have Ayala and Wilson as up coming CBs one of the more established players have to go. If Roy stays that will be Agger. While in terms of talent it is undoubtedly the wrong call, his injuries make him vulnerable and perhaps all would benefit long term if he went to a less physically demanding league.

[RedReet]

Mate, there really is no comparing Sami and Soto is there??

To make this clear again I am not criticising Soto as a player or a person, what I'm saying is we shouldn't have 2 centre backs in Carra and Soto who are both the wrong side of 30 and both have the turning circle of the SS Great Britain.
It hasn't worked for anyone except AC Milan.

I’m just saying we shouldn’t write him off just because of his age. We need the option of a dominant force in the air and Soto fits the bill. I can sort of see your argument if we get rid of Skrtel as that would leave 3 first team players that offer something different, but personally I’m still hoping that Skrtel develops into the player that he sometimes shows he has the potential to be.

If Roy is to be kept on, we may as well get rid of Agger though. No point in having him rotting on the bench.

[Craig_H]

Mate, there really is no comparing Sami and Soto is there??

To make this clear again I am not criticising Soto as a player or a person, what I'm saying is we shouldn't have 2 centre backs in Carra and Soto who are both the wrong side of 30 and both have the turning circle of the SS Great Britain.
It hasn't worked for anyone except AC Milan.

To be fair, if you were specifically saying Soto himself wasnt good enough, the argument could have more weight behind it.

As it is, you're just generally dismissing players over 30, which is daft. Each case on its merits, and all that.

Gary Mac, anyone?

Age means **** all if the player concerned is doing a good job, and Kyrgiakos is certainly doing that.

[The Birdman]

To be fair, if you were specifically saying Soto himself wasnt good enough, the argument could have more weight behind it.

As it is, you're just generally dismissing players over 30, which is daft. Each case on its merits, and all that.

Gary Mac, anyone?

Age means **** all if the player concerned is doing a good job, and Kyrgiakos is certainly doing that.

Where have I generally dismissed players over 30??
I have specifically said we shouldn't have 2 centre backs the wrong side of 30 because neither of them can turn and they are both slow.
There is nothing general about that comment.

Again Craig, why try to bring Gary Mac into this?? it's not relevent because we aren't discussing players in any position over the age of 30 and comparing how they performed are we.
If you you don't have concerns that we have Carra, Skrtel, Soto and Konchesky as Roy's 1st choice back 4 (there were whispers about Johnson being dropped before the injury) then fine, say that and stick to your opinion.

My opinion is that back 4 lacks pace and composure in possession and if it didn't have Pepe playing behind it would definately have us rooted in the bottom 6

Don't try to twist discussions by trying to compare Soto with Xavi and Gary MacAllister as that is really pointless and you're either trying to pick a fight (which you get accused of a lot) or you are just displying an alarming lack of appreciation for the points other posters try to raise