How good are our players?

[Mattshark]

simple -

3 world class players - reina, gerrard, torres

6 good players - carragher, johnson, agger, meireles, cole, kuyt

8 either decent squad or youngsters worth keeping - skrtel, kyriakos, kelly, wilson, shelvey, pacheco, ngog, lucas, maxi

the rest aren't good enough and don't warrant a mention

what we need to do is add at least one maybe two to the world class section, and again another two or three to the good players section - (made up of a left back, pacy left winger, good striker, a combative centre mid and then one other bonus player)

if this makes sense.....if we had what we needed and then picked our starting XI and then our bench looked somehting like

Sub keeper
kelly
skrtel
lucas
kuyt
ngog



then....we'd be in a position to move forward, challenge top 4 and look to improve on from there.

At the moment there is too many people in that 3rd caterogry of 'decent' (and unfortunatley some from the not good enough one too) who feature regularly

Both Maxi and Lucas are good players, Maxi is certainly better than Cole imo.

[SimonNo7]

i have had a look and thought there is a gap in the threads

i hope it doesnt turn into a how crap roy is as we all know he is and there are enough threads to post that in

i did think we are not that good becasue of the decline that started just over a year ago and that has encompasssed two managers for different reasons again not trying to argue the reasons

a manc i know said that most of the squad are not Liverpool standard.

so i thought well

Reina - world class
PFK - pass
Agger- classy but injured too much
Skrtel - getting back to where he was not sure how good he is though
Johnson - should be really good. an attacking full back, lacks concentration but we need to attack more if he is to look good in the team
Carragher - getting on and likely to make more mistakes, still the best CB who will play regularly not sure if we will be able to say that in 1-2 years though
The Greek - has a role to play better than expected
Aurellio- class but ageing i think and injured too much
Gerrard - still got it but think he needs to play advanced. also needs to be up for it as captian.
Lucas - getting better would think he could do a job if we wanted to win the league he may not play every game but a useful squad player at the very least
Poulson - ****
RM - Looks ok needs to play in the middle and we need more time to asses how good he is
Cole- not sure should be very very good but Capello, ancelotti, and mourinhio have all not got the best out of him. oh and looks to be injured too much
Kuyyt - useful player can run all day again for a title winning team not sure he would start every game but very good at what he does and very useful squad player and would get a decent amount of game time
Torres - world class, maybe injured too much, needs a rest and a different style of play to see if he still has that explosiveness
Ngog - not sure he is good enough but has bulked up a bit and is still young so developing

we have seen that they can play in parts so maybe they are not as bad as i think.

what are other peoples views without the mention of he who should not be named

I'd have to pretty much agree with that.

As for the squad being good enough to finish 4th, well on paper I'd disagree and on the pitch I'd also have to disagree.

You only have to look at the substitutes yesterday:

Spurs
23 Cudicini, 19 Bassong, 22 Corluka, 21 Kranjcar, 30 Sandro, 09 Pavlyuchenko, 18 Defoe

Us
01 Jones (clearly not good enough), 06 Aurelio (injury prone and getting on), 16 Kyrgiakos (played really well this season but really only good enough for back-up and getting on), 28 C Poulsen (I don't really need to say anything do I?), 33 Shelvey (young and learning, one for the future), 14 Jovanovic (not cutting it so far and isn't he getting on), 19 Babel (prefers TWITTER!)

[Exiled_red]

I think we have a good first team but there are areas in the squad that are very weak

This first 11 is/should be capable of getting into the top 4 IMO

Reina
Johnson Carragher Skrtel Aurelio
Lucas Meireles
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres

As soon as people are out we're in trouble experience back up options:
GK: Jones - not seen him in a Liverpool shirt
Centre Backs:

• Agger - Injury prone
• Kyriakos - experienced, on good form at the moment, can do a job.

Area covered

Full Backs:

• Right back - relying on a youngster or someone out of position.
• Left back - Konchesky :rollseyes:

Weak

Centre Midfield: Poulsen :rollseyes:
Weak
Wide Midfield areas/In the hole:

• Maxi - good recently,
• Jovanovic - early days but doesn't look up to it
• Babel - flatters to deceive

Have numbers but are short on quality and a different option (i.e. pace)

Strikers:
N'gog - decent and improving but should ideally be 3rd choice
Weak

Youngsters (I've kept these seperate as I'm not convinced that any are yet ready to be relied on for more than a couple of games at a time)

• Kelly
• Wilson
• Spearing
• Shelvey
• Pacheco

Aside from centre backs (Agger & Kyriakos) and Maxi there's no one else outside the first 11 who is good enough to play regularly without weakening the team significantly

[Mostar]

I think we have a good first team but there are areas in the squad that are very weak

This first 11 is/should be capable of getting into the top 4 IMO

Reina
Johnson Carragher Skrtel Aurelio
Lucas Meireles
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres

I disagree. We can challenge for Europa League but that team cannot compete for top 4.

For that to happen imo we at least need imo better LB (Aurelio is good when fit but he is getting old and being injury prone we need quality player), CB (Carra's days as being regular should be significantly reduced), a winger (Kuyt is not really a winger and we need pace and trickery which he does not possess) and a striker (Ngog is getting better but we need a quality signing).

[danperkins]

I disagree. We can challenge for Europa League but that team cannot compete for top 4.

For that to happen imo we at least need imo better LB (Aurelio is good when fit but he is getting old and being injury prone we need quality player), CB (Carra's days as being regular should be significantly reduced), a winger (Kuyt is not really a winger and we need pace and trickery which he does not possess) and a striker (Ngog is getting better but we need a quality signing).

on the money

[DannyMan2006]

When everyone is fit and on form our first XI is the third best in the league behind Man Utd and Chelseas best XI.

Our squad overall is probably 6th best. Obvioulsy if we have luck with injuries and other sides didn't, we have a chance at competing for the title. If we had bad luck with injuries we'd struggle to break into the top 5.

All this I base on all the clubs in the league having the same quality of manager. Obviously when you take into account of who is managing which club, you get a better idea of how well the team can compete.

[Mostar]

When everyone is fit and on form our first XI is the third best in the league behind Man Utd and Chelseas best XI.
Our squad overall is probably 6th best. Obvioulsy if we have luck with injuries and other sides didn't, we have a chance at competing for the title. If we had bad luck with injuries we'd struggle to break into the top 5.

All this I base on all the clubs in the league having the same quality of manager. Obviously when you take into account of who is managing which club, you get a better idea of how well the team can compete.

The same argument could be made by likes of Tottenham, Cityh and/or Arsenal and plus they have much better and deeper squad than us.

We are simply not good enough to compete at the highest level.

We had better team last year and we only managed 7th spot.

We need 3,4 high quality signings to put us in contention for top 4 spots and as it stands it is very unlikely.

[cream]

i have had a look and thought there is a gap in the threads

i hope it doesnt turn into a how crap roy is as we all know he is and there are enough threads to post that in

i did think we are not that good becasue of the decline that started just over a year ago and that has encompasssed two managers for different reasons again not trying to argue the reasons

a manc i know said that most of the squad are not Liverpool standard.

so i thought well

Reina - world class
PFK - pass
Agger- classy but injured too much
Skrtel - getting back to where he was not sure how good he is though
Johnson - should be really good. an attacking full back, lacks concentration but we need to attack more if he is to look good in the team
Carragher - getting on and likely to make more mistakes, still the best CB who will play regularly not sure if we will be able to say that in 1-2 years though
The Greek - has a role to play better than expected
Aurellio- class but ageing i think and injured too much
Gerrard - still got it but think he needs to play advanced. also needs to be up for it as captian.
Lucas - getting better would think he could do a job if we wanted to win the league he may not play every game but a useful squad player at the very least
Poulson - ****
RM - Looks ok needs to play in the middle and we need more time to asses how good he is
Cole- not sure should be very very good but Capello, ancelotti, and mourinhio have all not got the best out of him. oh and looks to be injured too much
Kuyyt - useful player can run all day again for a title winning team not sure he would start every game but very good at what he does and very useful squad player and would get a decent amount of game time
Torres - world class, maybe injured too much, needs a rest and a different style of play to see if he still has that explosiveness
Ngog - not sure he is good enough but has bulked up a bit and is still young so developing

we have seen that they can play in parts so maybe they are not as bad as i think.

what are other peoples views without the mention of he who should not be named

Manager - dog****

[danperkins]

The same argument could be made by likes of Tottenham, Cityh and/or Arsenal and plus they have much better and deeper squad than us.

We are simply not good enough to compete at the highest level.

We had better team last year and we only managed 7th spot.

We need 3,4 high quality signings to put us in contention for top 4 spots and as it stands it is very unlikely.

[DannyMan2006]

The same argument could be made by likes of Tottenham, Cityh and/or Arsenal

Bolton could also make the argument, but they'd also be wrong.

[JohnDoe]

With Gerrard and Torres fit, we should finish 4th. They're better than anything Spurs/City have.

Without them though, we're a bottom half team fighting relegation.

[Mostar]

Bolton could also make the argument, but they'd also be wrong.

Taking a piss now doesn't change a thing.

[SimonNo7]

When everyone is fit and on form our first XI is the third best in the league behind Man Utd and Chelseas best XI.

Our squad overall is probably 6th best. Obvioulsy if we have luck with injuries and other sides didn't, we have a chance at competing for the title. If we had bad luck with injuries we'd struggle to break into the top 5.

All this I base on all the clubs in the league having the same quality of manager. Obviously when you take into account of who is managing which club, you get a better idea of how well the team can compete.

I admire your support for our beloved club but if you think we have the 3rd best first XI behind Manure and Chelsea and ahead of Arsenal, Man City and Spurs then IMO your glasses are even more tinted than most.

I think this is the problem with most of us, we think our players are better than they really are. Position for position I think we have 3 players better than all the others, Torres, Stevie and Pepe. After that the others all have better players than ours. IMO.

[little dave hedgehog]

I admire your support for our beloved club but if you think we have the 3rd best first XI behind Manure and Chelsea and ahead of Arsenal, Man City and Spurs then IMO your glasses are even more tinted than most.

I think this is the problem with most of us, we think our players are better than they really are. Position for position I think we have 3 players better than all the others, Torres, Stevie and Pepe. After that the others all have better players than ours. IMO.

this.

[DannyMan2006]

I admire your support for our beloved club but if you think we have the 3rd best first XI behind Manure and Chelsea and ahead of Arsenal, Man City and Spurs then IMO your glasses are even more tinted than most.

I think this is the problem with most of us, we think our players are better than they really are. Position for position I think we have 3 players better than all the others, Torres, Stevie and Pepe. After that the others all have better players than ours. IMO.

But the three you mention are world class. How many world class players do Spurs have? None. How many do Arsenal have? One. How many do City have? One. They have some good players, but only Fabregas out of those three teams is comparable to Gerrard and Torres, though I like Silva at City.

Gerrard and Torres in tandem up top is better than what any of our rivals have.

As for other players, I think Agger would get in all three teams defence when at his best. Glen Johnson is better than the RB of Spurs (Hutton), City (Zabaletta) and similar level to Sagna.

If I was to pick a dream team from all four teams, I'd take Reina, Torres and Gerrard, I'd also take Johnson over Sagna, and I'd likely take Agger as well.

In fact, tbh it's only the wings where we really fall down. Kuyt and Maxi simply don't match up to the likes of Silva+Milner, Bale+Lennon and Arshavin+Nasri.