Europe

[Exiled_red]

Aye it's a bit messed up now to say the least.

In seasons gone by weren't the 5th, 6th and 7th placed teams given a Europa League place?

In recent years that has been the case because of who won/ been involved in cup finals (qualifiers in bold):

09/10 FA Cup winners: Chelsea - in CL
........FA Cup runners up: Portsmouth - disqualified - place goes to league
........League Cup winners Man Utd - in CL - place goes to league

08/09 FA Cup winners: Chelsea - in CL
.........FA Cup runners up: Everton
.........League Cup winners: Man Utd - in CL - place goes to league

07/08 FA Cup winners: Portsmouth
.........League Cup winners: Tottenham

06/07 FA Cup winners: Chelsea - in CL
........FA Cup runners up: Man Utd - in CL - place goes to league
........League cup winners: Chelsea in CL - place goes to league

05/06 FA Cup winners: Liverpool - in CL
........FA Cup runners up: West Ham
........League Cup Winners Man Utd - in CL - place goes to league

In the last 5 years only 6 times out of 10 the cup places have been allocated to the league because of cup finalists/winners

[Mostar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/02/jamie-carragher-liverpool-europa-league?

Jamie Carragher defends Liverpool's Europa League ambitions

Jamie Carragher has defended Liverpool's Europa League ambitions this season in the face of apathy from some fans over the importance of Europe's second-tier competition.

The defender said he understood fans' objections to the tournament, which has been criticised for the lengthy qualifying rounds and could see nearly 200 teams take part in next year's competition, but claimed Liverpool should not turn their noses up at the chance of winning another European trophy.

He said: "Realistically I think the manager would use the squad accordingly, and it is also a great place to give young players some experience. I'm sure we will be adding some new players to the squad next season as well, so we will have a bigger squad, and we can ensure that everyone is involved as we will [hopefully] be playing more games.

"For me, it is another trophy to go for. I'd have loved to have been in [the Europa League final in] Dublin in a couple of weeks, that would have been fantastic for us and fantastic for the supporters. I'm not daft, I wouldn't expect us to play our full team – especially in the group stages – but it is great experience for young players to be involved in that kind of game."

This season's competition saw a Liverpool debut for the young striker David Amoo against Macedonia's Rabotnicki in the qualifying rounds, which started for Liverpool in July, and Carragher believes the Europa League would offer opportunities for the club's squad and youth players. He said: "Sometimes if you are playing only league games you don't need to change the team too much, so you will have 10 or 12 disappointed players. So in that sense, having more games makes it easier to keep everyone at the club happy."

Liverpool were knocked out of this season's Europa League by Braga at the last-16 stage, and Carragher admitted that the competition can take a toll on the players. "Playing on a Thursday then a Sunday is a bit of a problem; with the Champions League you can sometimes get an extra day's rest, and when you are playing on a Sunday you are usually playing after other teams, so that can sometimes be a bit of a problem."

The Anfield club moved into fifth in the Premier League with victory over Newcastle United on Sunday, level on points with Tottenham Hotspur having played a game more. For Carragher the battle for the Europa League spot will add spice to the north London club's visit to Anfield this month. He said: "I know there is a lot of talk about whether people want us to finish fifth or not, but for me, Liverpool is European football. That's what the club is about and I'm desperate for us to get it. If we keep winning games we've got a good chance.

"But Tottenham will probably feel the same, and I think [Liverpool v Spurs] will be a great game now. It is equally important just for the team to keep winning too, and maintain the feel-good factor. It hasn't been a great 18 months really for the club, it has been tough. Now, though, we can start to enjoy ourselves and go into games expecting to win."

The Spurs manager Harry Redknapp last week made his feelings on the Europa League clear last week, describing it as a competition "that teams get in and then they try to get out of" but Carragher said the rivalry for fifth place in the league will be intense when the teams meet on 15 May.

"It will be some game. I remember the game we had with them last season. We were still fighting for fourth at the time and we weren't on a great run, but the crowd were fantastic that night and we had a great game against them. I think the crowd will be in a similar vein when we play them in a couple of weeks. But we have to make sure we get the result at Fulham first, to ensure that the Tottenham game has greater significance."

[Rudo]

^^^

"But we have to make sure we get the result at Fulham first, to ensure that the Tottenham game has greater significance."


He's spot on there. You'd expect Spurs to beat Blackpool on Saturday and when they do that'll put them 3 clear of us having played the same games.
Nothing less than 3 points at Fulham will do.

[Mostar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/03/europa-league-liverpool-luis-suarez?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Liverpool's main objective is Europa League, says Luis Suárez

Luis Suárez is anxious to ensure Liverpool will not be exiled from continental competition for the first time in 12 years.

To avoid that fate, Kenny Dalglish's team need to win their battle with Tottenham Hotspur for fifth place in the Premier League. The prize is Europa League involvement but Suárez has an answer for those Anfield regulars who believe the former Champions League winners are beneath what many regard as a distinctly second string contest.

Told that the Europa League was seen as unimportant in certain quarters, the Uruguay striker said: "For me it's not. For me it's important, it's the sort of competition you want to play in. A club like Liverpool must aim to win it. We have to do everything to win as many competitions as we can," said Suárez.

"The Europa League is our objective. When I came I wanted to help Liverpool get there. When the second half of the season started, it looked really difficult but we have kept winning games and we've just been hoping Tottenham drop points."

Liverpool's European ambitions almost certainly hinge on the outcome of their match with Spurs at Anfield on Sunday week. Dalglish's side are in fifth place, level on points with Harry Redknapp's team but having played a game more. "That is going to be a great game," said Suárez. "That will be the most important game of our season if we want to dream about going to the Europa League."

His sentiments were endorsed by Jamie Carragher. "It's nice to have the Europa League to aim for," said the veteran defender. "I know there's a lot of talk about whether people want us to finish fifth or not but, for me, Liverpool is European football. That's what the club is about and I'm desperate for us to get it. Tottenham will probably feel the same; it will be a great game against them now."

Not that Carragher is naive about the prospect of another season spent as Channel Five's Thursday night "stars". "The problem of playing Thursday and then Sunday is that it doesn't give players much time to recover," he said.

"But it's another trophy to go for. I'd have loved to have been in Dublin [for this year's final] in a couple of weeks; that would have been fantastic."

He even believes participation in next season's unwieldy pre-Christmas group stage could contain hidden benefits, particularly for more junior squad members. "I wouldn't expect us to play our full team – especially in the group stages – but it's great experience for young players to be involved in that kind of game," said Carragher.

"Sometimes, if you are playing only League games, you don't need to change the team too much, so you have 10 or 12 disappointed players. Having more games makes it easier to keep everyone happy."

Liverpool has been an increasingly sunny place since Roy Hodgson stepped down, Dalglish returned and Suárez arrived on the English stage.

"The manager is always the main man and takes the most plaudits but Suárez has been outstanding," said Carragher. "He has made a big difference to us. Maybe not as much as the manager but a big difference."

[Darkon]

The CL is probably still commercially under exploited. For the competition itself the lower predictability of the cup winners means that there is more of a chance of less good teams (both in terms of footballing quality and box office) getting in. There is also more chance of traditional big teams having revenue problems and hence them starting a break away league. So it is in the interests of both FAs and UEFA for the status quo to continue, in political as well as economic terms.

In terms of the entertainment value domestically and for the CL I can see your point. However, the current format and qualifying has generated perhaps the most competitive and consistently high level of football of any club competition ever. That said this year has seen a notable slip in quality for many top sides (possibly because of economic imperatives at all big clubs bar Real and Barcelona dictating that rebuilding programs are more gradual).

I think the financial fair play rules are a better start to a long term program of change than altering the CL qualification. Too much unpredictable change helps no one.

I agree that there is not economic interest in it what so ever, and that is unfortunatly the only interest taken care of in football today. But in the end it all comes down to greed from the major clubs, and not least UEFA, the FA and the equilants. More money means more to stuff down the suits pockets.

In the interest of creating unpredictable games, which is much more interesting than seing the same 2 teams winning the national leagues (barca v real, scum v chelski, inter v milan etc.). You may have the occasional freak winning of a third team but it's becoming the general rule that only a couple of teams can compete for championships. I am not questioning the quality of the CL, it has been very good, but if the essence of it is to just having the best teams from the last 20 years competing against eachother, they might as well just make a european league and skip the local/national leagues.

Unpredictable change does help someone, but not the ones with the power and money and that's the whole issue on the bottomline. If the interest of the game and entertainment in it was at heart in the long term, more would be done to make it exactly that.

The financial fair play rules can't be underestimated although in the form today they make little sense in creating larger compitition because the largest teams have the largest revenue and hence can still afford better/more than the smaller teams. A wage cap would make far more sense in levelling the playing field.

[Darkon]

I would suggest that finishing in the top four, across 38 league games and maintaining the consistency required to do that is harder than winning 7 cup games, and as a consequence, have 'earnt' it more than a side which wins the Cup.

That's why it should go to 4th place, rather than the cup winners - because the side who finishes 4th has done more to earn it, across 38 games, not just 7.

I still remember the good old Cup Winners Cup, and that had far more prestige than winning the UEFA cup for the teams who had just gotten their consolation prize. The number of games does not dictate how hard a competition is to win, by that count winning the CL would be less a feat than winning the Latvian championship (no offence to Latvia, just off the top of my head).

The cups used to be notoriously hard to win, because of their unpredictability and because all clubs ranked them highly, but the restructuring of European football in the interest of money ruined that part of the domestic game. The cups are hard to win especially because you play 1 game a month, so you need to switch focus and solely concentrate on that 1 game that can be fatal, rather than a small slip up in a 38 game season.

[Craig_H]

I still remember the good old Cup Winners Cup, and that had far more prestige than winning the UEFA cup for the teams who had just gotten their consolation prize. The number of games does not dictate how hard a competition is to win, by that count winning the CL would be less a feat than winning the Latvian championship (no offence to Latvia, just off the top of my head).

The cups used to be notoriously hard to win, because of their unpredictability and because all clubs ranked them highly, but the restructuring of European football in the interest of money ruined that part of the domestic game. The cups are hard to win especially because you play 1 game a month, so you need to switch focus and solely concentrate on that 1 game that can be fatal, rather than a small slip up in a 38 game season.

It's not JUST the number of games though, is it?

Maybe you're missing the point or maybe i wasnt making it clearly, but 38 games is a far greater barometer of consistency, than 7.

When you add to that the fact that the 38 games are ALL against top flight sides, whereas it's rare for an FA Cup winner to play all Premier League opposition throughout their 7 match cup run, it's clear that finishing in the top 4 requires a greater level of effort, consistency and class than winning the FA Cup.

I'm not talking in terms of 'less of a feat' or 'more of a feat', i'm just saying you need to be more consistent, across a longer period of time, against harder opposition and across more games, to finish top 4, than you do to win the cup.

[Mattshark]

So the best teams would shift their focus onto the FA Cup and win it - and you'd just have the same teams qualifying for the CL via winning the FA Cup, as you do qualifying for it via finishing in the top 4.

Just looking at the recent FA cup winners, giving a CL place to them would make very little difference.

[Exiled_red]

Just looking at the recent FA cup winners, giving a CL place to them would make very little difference.

That's true.

However aren't the number of places affected by how well the teams do in Europe? So in order for the league to keep it's 4 places, it requires the sides that qualify to do well, and while the League or the FA chooses how to allocate the places, surely it is in their best interests to allocate them to the 4 strongest teams which would be via the league.

[Mattshark]

That's true.

However aren't the number of places affected by how well the teams do in Europe? So in order for the league to keep it's 4 places, it requires the sides that qualify to do well, and while the League or the FA chooses how to allocate the places, surely it is in their best interests to allocate them to the 4 strongest teams which would be via the league.

[Nick77]

Not imposssible if Spurs beat Man City tomorrow night & we beat Spurs on Sunday - will be very interesting as Man City play in form Stoke on Saturday who could easily nick a draw & then Bolton away last game of the season which wouldn't be impossible for Bolton to win imo...

[Nick77]

Oh & we have now won just as many away games as the Scum would u believe?!

[banditos]

Not imposssible if Spurs beat Man City tomorrow night & we beat Spurs on Sunday - will be very interesting as Man City play in form Stoke on Saturday who could easily nick a draw & then Bolton away last game of the season which wouldn't be impossible for Bolton to win imo...

The Sat Stoke game is actually the FA cup. They play them in the league again 3 days later. Could make things interesting.

[Nick77]

The Sat Stoke game is actually the FA cup. They play them in the league again 3 days later. Could make things interesting.

Correct but if Spurs beat them tomorrow night & we beat Spurs on Sunday we could be 1 point behind them by the time they play their catch up game against Stoke

[Pablo]

Spurs will be ****ting themselves right now