Luis Suárez

[Kenneth]

Do you think Alonso, Mascherano and Torres didn't want to leave?! Torres was desperate to, Mascherano desperate to go to Barca and, as Neil said touched on before, surely you don't think Alonso didn't want to leave and join Real Madrid??

The first group of points you raise, I accept but I've accepted that's the way it is (moving to Madrid at the first opportunity) and was always gonna end this way.

I probably wasn't clear, I was contrasting the Alonso situation with the situations of the others. Whether there is a difference is certainly debatable, but I'm just trying to come up with an explanation for the difference in attitude.

[Venton]

I think people have this simple notion of trust and loyalty. Once it is perceived to be broken by either side then everything else is fair game. They also have a simple narrative that explains each scenario.

For me, I don't really think ill of any of our ex players. I find Torres's fall amazing and quite funny, but that's just general schadenfreude. Owen I dislike because he seems like an arrogant prick. No thoughts about Mascherano at all really. If Luis goes I'll probably regard him as an idiot who was excellent for us for two seasons. Again, no strong feelings either way, especially as we'll be getting decent money in to replace him.

McManaman is an odd one. Left for a free at nearly the peak of his value which screwed the club as much as anyone, you'd think conventional 'logic' would dictate everlasting hatred but that isn't his legacy at all. Maybe being local explains it, don't know.

Didn't we screw over McManaman? I thought we tried to sell him off at a moment's notice and he got a cob on.

Agree about Mascherano. And wasn't bothered about Owen, he was never one of us. Torres disappointed me going at that point to a club we hated but only because he was a bit of a badge kisser. That's the kind of thing that ****s you off.

[EwarWoo]

But the rest of it took the joy out of supporting us last year, which is kind of opposite to you. For me he took some of the dignity away from the club.

Suarez took the joy out? So it wasn't the woeful tactics, even more woeful yet expensive signings and general crap all round performances that even his skill couldn't get us past?

Its like an attempt to revise history to have a reason to dislike him. He was the one and only thing worth watching that season.

[RedSince1964]

That's actually quite interesting. I think he's one of the best players we've ever had, absolutely exceptional. I love the way he can turn a match and conjure something out of nothing. I've absolutely no problem at all with his ability and the joy of his play. But the rest of it took the joy out of supporting us last year, which is kind of opposite to you. For me he took some of the dignity away from the club.

I can understand what you mean about the joy you get from watching a skillful player though, he's pure gold to see on the pitch. It's very sad to see it end this way.

[Venton]

Suarez took the joy out? So it wasn't the woeful tactics, even more woeful yet expensive signings and general crap all round performances that even his skill couldn't get us past?

I've been a supporter for a long, long time and I watched us win the league year after year, so I can see a long game and be patient about the ups and downs of football. You can't really get proper joy out of it unless you experience the downsides I think. That's more of a philosophical point, but I can enjoy supporting Liverpool whether we play well or badly, although obviously I prefer the highs of the former. Those who can't take both in football should really **** off out of the sport otherwise it will give then endless grief over the decades.

To put it simply, the racist bit, and the handshake bit took the joy out of it for me. Like me taste in music it's obviously not the majority view. It has nothing to do with how well we play on the field or how skillful Suarez is.

[EwarWoo]

I think there's a big difference between supporting when we're **** and getting joy out of watching us play ****

[MrMichael]

I don't think he's said or done a great deal wrong. I'm gonna be pretty disheartened if he winds up being a hate figure with the fans, like Torres.

One of the elite players in the world - who 100% deserves to be playing at the highest level, something we can't provide - is wanted by one of the top two clubs in the world and he wants to go there. It's not new.

We seem to make up these arbitrary boundaries for players who've left, with randomly different criterion for each one. Making it up as we go along ffs. Alonso is mainly a hero, Mascherano's a cunt, Torres is a cunt. Surely Suarez ain't gonna be seen as a cunt too? They all did (or Suarez is about to do) essentially the same thing. We're becoming a right bunch of quilts. There was a time when I could count on one or two fingers the number of ex players who'd get booed coming back to Anfield. The list now seems to get longer every year.

With every world class Spanish or South American there's always the risk they'll want to go to Barca or Real at some point. It was obvious this is how it would end for Suarez at LFC when I saw just how good he was. I hope he stays but if he goes we ought to get huge wedge for him and off he'll go. I'll always love him as a footballer. Amazing player....been thrilling watching him play for us.

It's all just a ****ing game. To me it's clear he wants to go because he wants to play for Real Madrid and contend for titles and the CL every year, and this "the media hate me" line - while clearly overblown if you look at that Uruguayan lad's interpretation - is just a cover in the belief it'll make it easier for us to swallow.....rather than saying "LFC are a bit ****e and I'm way better than this so I need to go", which is essentially where I think he's at. Understandably.

I just look at that reception he got off the Ajax fans after leaving them in almost identical circumstances (bigger club come calling after bite incident) - I'd love for us to give him similar receptions if ever we met again. He deserves it. Been a ****ing incredible player for us, a genius and a warrior. A rare treat.

Completely agree with your sentiment here Shaggy. If Luis leaves I wouldn't bear him any ill will at all, indeed I'd find it pretty easy to understand. He might have the opportunity to sign for the most successful European club in history, and who unlike us are competing at that level every year. He has also had a rough time in England from the establishment, media and other fans, sure most of that has been self-inflicted but I can still see how, sitting down with his family, he might conclude that moving to Spain would be better for him. He obviously loves Liverpool, the club and the fans, otherwise there wouldn't even be a decision for him to make, but if he does decide to call time on his stay here it is totally understandable imo and absolutely does not make him any sort of a c*nt.

Like you I'm completely sick of the way we respond to our ex-players; ones like Owen who basically strung us along re. his contract then engineered a move for half his actual value, I can understand the animosity towards him (although 2005 kinda was all the payback we ever needed), but these arbitrary judgements we make about others who simply choose to move on for footballing or personal reasons I'm not keen on at all. Luis has been great for us, and a complete lunatic too, I hope he stays but if he goes I hope he tears La Liga apart and we give him a great reception when he returns to play at Anfield in the CL in 2015.

[Kenneth]

Considering where the club is at the moment I don't think anyone could deny that a move to Madrid is a huge step up in career terms and his desire to move would be completely understandable. As probably the sole member of the 'we should sell him because he bites people and ****' club, I think it's probably right for him and us, providing we can get quality players in with the money we get.

[Venton]

I think there's a big difference between supporting when we're **** and getting joy out of watching us play ****

Yes there is, but I didn't say there wasn't. I love watching us play. I like it better when we play well.

If you really need it clarifying further here is a break down:

Things I don't like

• When we don't play well
  When we **** up with our tactics
  When we **** up in the transfer market

Things I hate

• When one our players uses the colour of player's skin to wind him up
  When he apologises for doing it and then refuses to shake his hand afterwards
  Thereby cunting one of our icons
  When he then goes on to demonstrate he's capable of doing all kinds of **** all over again.

I'd list the things I like but I suspect we'd agree on those. I think I've made that clear now.

[Venton]

Its like an attempt to revise history to have a reason to dislike him. He was the one and only thing worth watching that season.

Whoops. Actually missed this part of your post, and having seen it I shouldn't have bothered replying to you.

[Kenneth]

Member #2, welcome. Let me be the more reasonable public face

[MrMichael]

Considering where the club is at the moment I don't think anyone could deny that a move to Madrid is a huge step up in career terms and his desire to move would be completely understandable. As probably the sole member of the 'we should sell him because he bites people and ****' club, I think it's probably right for him and us, providing we can get quality players in with the money we get.

Aye.

I reckon I'm in the "we shouldn't voluntarily sell world class players, but given this one bites people and **** if he wants to go that's ok and we should just get the best possible fee" club. Doesn't roll of the tongue as well as your club though

[Kenneth]

we need acronyms.

[Catrin]

Aye.

I reckon I'm in the "we shouldn't voluntarily sell world class players, but given this one bites people and **** if he wants to go that's ok and we should just get the best possible fee" club.

Same here. At least the funds will be reinvested. Nothing wrong with selling players at a profit as long as the income goes back into the team.

[little dave hedgehog]

the thing that pisses me off is that we need our best players to stay and create something. i don't want us to be selling players to real madrid, i want to be where they are. we won't get there if we give those kinds of teams all our best players.