Liverpool v Sunderland post match thread

[Mostar]

I meant Spearing could have replaced Lucas sometime during the match, when the signs of fatigue were obvious. He was ripe for substitution and I can't quite fathom why it didn't happen.

I don't think the right back position will be the subject of much controversy if Johnson is back soon AND he plays well (no doziness). I'm more concerned about fitting the midfield together and sorting out the centre back issue.

Yes, Kenny could've subbed him when he started going out of steam but I think we had more issues with Hendo and he also wanted to keep Suarez fresh and injury free for Arsenal game.

CB is an issue but I'm personally more concerned with fitting all these pieces in to accommodate Carroll.

Really think we need one more game changer as our options are pretty limited if Project Carroll doesn't take off.

[BootRoom]

Having a centre back that doesn't *play the ball* doesn't hinder a counter attack, yes, hoofing might cost you possession, but a simple pass to our midfield won't slow us down.

I think there is way too much emphasis on the need for ball playing defenders. I want my defenders to defend, I want them to stop the opposition in any way (legally) possible and put their body on the line. There is nothing wrong with having a blend of a technically gifted defender and a stopper (for want of a better word).

Our attack starts when the ball is released from our defence, whether that is ten yards in our own half, or ten yards in the oppositions half.

Technical, ball-playing defenders are very hard to find. What we really lack is a dominant CB that can impose himself on the opposing forwards, and relieve pressure on the rest of the defence. Carragher just can't do this. More often than not, when the ball is played up, the forward will flick the ball on or bring the ball down and continue the attack. Every highish ball against average players is a struggle for him. We need a player that can do this but also has enough other attributes (enough pace, adaquate skill etc) that he doesn't become a liability. That's what i would call a true 'stopper' - a 25 year old Sami Hyppia!

[Craig_H]

Well, my fears about the players we've signed came home to roost in the second half today. Albeit, Downing and Adam were pretty good in the first half, and Enrique was solid throughout. Henderson, as per my confusion about what he actually does/offers, i am still wondering about. Very ineffective really.

But the second half just summed it up for me - who were our matchwinner options? Let's be honest, once Suarez went off, nobody was going to step upto the plate and win us that game. In fact, nobody offered any genuine dangerous threat once he'd come off. And it goes back, once again, to the fact that Downing, Adam, Henderson etc, whilst being good solid players, are not game-changers or matchwinners.

Second half, when we were struggling to create anything, who did we have on the pitch who we could look to, to find us a winner or create something out of nothing? Unfortunately, there was nobody.

Clearly fitness was a major issue, we utterly wilted in the 2nd half and this was a consequence of not playing enough of our first team in preseason, very bizarre thing to do and an error IMO, which cost us today.

And if anyone can explain to me why Meireles was put out on the left, whilst Downing (an effective out and out winger) played down the right and then, insanely, through the middle, i would love to hear it.


On the plus side, we werent really threatened defensively, certainly not on a consistent basis. Enrique was good. Suarez is still amazing. Carroll is a work in progress which will come good. Lucas was alright, Adam was good first half, Agger was excellent and didnt get injured and Downing was promising in the first half, unlucky not to score with a great run and shot.

Kuyt should have started IMO and if we're going to lump it high to Carroll (the easy option we continuously chose in the 2nd half, because nobody seemed to have any idea of an alternative), then we must get bodies up there around Carroll, so that if he wins a header, we have someone to pick up the 2nd ball, and if he brings it down, he needs bodies around him to lay it off to.

2nd half was dreadful, 1st half was very good - could and should've had it won by HT.

On another day, Larsson doesnt score that goal and on another day, their defender walks for the professional foul, which would've made it a different game.

We badly lack creativity because clearly, Gerrard and Suarez are the only players we have who can consistently produce something special/a bit different, that so often makes the difference between 1 point and 3. This needed addressing IMO, and i dont think that's happened. I hope to be proven wrong.

Poor result though and 2 points already dropped, with Arsenal away to come.

[Craig_H]

It's only one game you bunch of fannys...get a grip some of you.

Of course it's only one game, but are those 2 points dropped now of less value than 2 points later in the season? Sadly not.

[Rich]

Some valid points Craig but I think you're being a little harsh with it being the first game.

Adam looks like he has the vision to be a 'game changer' with his set pieces and passing.

Enrique looked very composed, Downing promising, and I think Henderson was a little overawed and would have been helped if Johnson had been playing.

Very early days and all in all there is a lot of promise there IMO.

[Mostar]

Well, my fears about the players we've signed came home to roost in the second half today. Albeit, Downing and Adam were pretty good in the first half, and Enrique was solid throughout. Henderson, as per my confusion about what he actually does/offers, i am still wondering about. Very ineffective really.

But the second half just summed it up for me - who were our matchwinner options? Let's be honest, once Suarez went off, nobody was going to step upto the plate and win us that game. In fact, nobody offered any genuine dangerous threat once he'd come off. And it goes back, once again, to the fact that Downing, Adam, Henderson etc, whilst being good solid players, are not game-changers or matchwinners.

Second half, when we were struggling to create anything, who did we have on the pitch who we could look to, to find us a winner or create something out of nothing? Unfortunately, there was nobody.

Clearly fitness was a major issue, we utterly wilted in the 2nd half and this was a consequence of not playing enough of our first team in preseason, very bizarre thing to do and an error IMO, which cost us today.

And if anyone can explain to me why Meireles was put out on the left, whilst Downing (an effective out and out winger) played down the right and then, insanely, through the middle, i would love to hear it.


On the plus side, we werent really threatened defensively, certainly not on a consistent basis. Enrique was good. Suarez is still amazing. Carroll is a work in progress which will come good. Lucas was alright, Adam was good first half, Agger was excellent and didnt get injured and Downing was promising in the first half, unlucky not to score with a great run and shot.

Kuyt should have started IMO and if we're going to lump it high to Carroll (the easy option we continuously chose in the 2nd half, because nobody seemed to have any idea of an alternative), then we must get bodies up there around Carroll, so that if he wins a header, we have someone to pick up the 2nd ball, and if he brings it down, he needs bodies around him to lay it off to.

2nd half was dreadful, 1st half was very good - could and should've had it won by HT.

On another day, Larsson doesnt score that goal and on another day, their defender walks for the professional foul, which would've made it a different game.

We badly lack creativity because clearly, Gerrard and Suarez are the only players we have who can consistently produce something special/a bit different, that so often makes the difference between 1 point and 3. This needed addressing IMO, and i dont think that's happened. I hope to be proven wrong.

Poor result though and 2 points already dropped, with Arsenal away to come.

I made the same point many times during the pre-season that we need more creativity and at least one more player that can single-handedly influence the game and it was very apparent today, that with exception of Stevie and Suarez, we just don't have that type of a player.

I don't expect us to buy a game changer this year as we don't have time and probably money to do that this transfer window but imo we should do what we can to keep Aquilani.

He's the only one that has the potential to turn things around for us when we desparetely need creativity and without him our options are very limited.

[little dave hedgehog]

no movement and nobody getting up around carroll are both symptoms of the same problem, which is running out of puff. so not surprising that once one of them rocked up, the other came with. i don't think it's necessarily a tactical problem, just knackered players.

[Craig_H]

Typical forum fans
Flanagan didn't play very well but he's 18 ffs. Posters are piling into him on here after 1 game.
1 ****ing game.
He proved last season he knows how to pass and play, give the kid a break.

I'm as dissappointed as anyone but we should have played 85 mins against 10 men, missed the pen, had a goal disallowed, hit the woodwork and we have to accept that if we don't get the 2nd goal teams will have chances of their own

As opposed to what other kind of fans?

Chelsea won their first 9 odd games 4-0 or something start of last season. And they ended up quite sh*t. So its farrrr too early for where we finish in the league.

'****' or not, i'd happily take where they finished.

It may only be the first game but its stiill a home game against a mid-table team that we should be winning without any excuses. They didnt have much trouble gelling lin the first half so theres no excuse for the second half performance. Sunderland have made new signings too and yet they finished the game stronger than us. Its just not good enough, with the squad we had available today we should have won it comfortably

[Muddled]

Technical, ball-playing defenders are very hard to find. What we really lack is a dominant CB that can impose himself on the opposing forwards, and relieve pressure on the rest of the defence. Carragher just can't do this. More often than not, when the ball is played up, the forward will flick the ball on or bring the ball down and continue the attack. Every highish ball against average players is a struggle for him. We need a player that can do this but also has enough other attributes (enough pace, adaquate skill etc) that he doesn't become a liability. That's what i would call a true 'stopper' - a 25 year old Sami Hyppia!

Absolutely!

I don't really know where or when this ball-playing defender was created, but I see nothing wrong with having a balance of one ball player and one dominant centre back. The attributes you've listed are exactly what I want in Carragher's replacement and I cross my fingers they are half as good as Hyppia.

[little dave hedgehog]

As opposed to what other kind of fans?

the kind who happily move on with their lives when the match ends

[Craig_H]

the kind who happily move on with their lives when the match ends

Ah i see what you mean. You're right, those of us who are expressing disappointment and being critical are going to end our lives as of tonight, we're not going to be carrying on with stuff as normal, everything has stopped and is over.

[Rich]

Is there not a chance you are being overly critical, it being the first game of the season?

[little dave hedgehog]

no, i include myself in your group. i mean the kind who aren't constantly going over their football with a fine toothed comb. there are many many fans in the world who don't fancy having a public inquest after every match, and to a degree i wish i was one of them, but obviously i'm not

[Mostar]

the kind who happily move on with their lives when the match ends

Regardless of the match outcome?

Don't called them fans then.

They are more sports enthusiasts.

[-V-]

Carra was our main defensive problem today, not Flanagan or Lucas IMO. How much help did Flanagan get from Carra? Almost no help at all because Carra isn't quick enough to help out. We have talked about our weakness on the left side for years. Now suddenly that defensive side is top class and the right side is very average defensively.

We must replace Carra as soon as possible. The problem is that I believe that if we sign a new central defender like Cahill then it won't be Carra that will be benched. It will be Agger.

I can't see Kenny benching Carra and keep Agger in the starting XI, I simply can't but that is what should happen when we sign a new central defender for the starting XI.

Carra is a legend but his time at the top is over.

Without a doubt. He's long gone. We need a commanding centre back. If we can sell 2 or 3 of our unwanted midfielders then we should invest it in a centre half