Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[James P]

Well you're being a bit of a pedant

If someone is wearing a black tshirt and someone else asks you what colour that person's tshirt is, what do you say?

I'd say that I couldn't be sure because of the absence of light.

[Red_Polo]

I'd say that I couldn't be sure because of the absence of light.

The tangents we take on this forum

[Kenneth]

Colour is pigment in light, black represents no light or pigment. When your telly is on the light behind the colour makes the image you see, if you see black on your TV (pure black) then there is no light being used which is the definition of a colour.

or, colour is the result of the brain processing our sensory experience of light. The fact that black absorbs all colour pigments may be true, but this is just the phyisics behind how the eye produces the experiential messages to the brain. Colour is intrinsically linked to perception, and we perceive black as part of the colour spectrum, so black is a colour.

(and if a tree falls and there is nobody there to here it, it doesn't make a sound).

[Red_Polo]

or, colour is the result of the brain processing our sensory experience of light. The fact that black absorbs all colour pigments may be true, but this is just the phyisics behind how the eye produces the experiential messages to the brain. Colour is intrinsically linked to perception, and we perceive black as part of the colour spectrum, so black is a colour.

(and if a tree falls and there is nobody there to here it, it doesn't make a sound).

Not really, black is when we do not perceive any colour. It's how you would be if you were devoid of the anatomy and physiology that allows you to perceive colour. Black is not 'seeing' black. It's not seeing.

[Kenneth]

No its not. If humans didn't have eyes and the anatomy for light perception we wouldn't perceive blackness. Colour does not exist outside of our minds, as with sound. What's your perception of sonar like? Black is the absense of light pigments which we translate to the colour black. When you look around you, is there any conceptual difference between black objects and non black objects?

[Chris]

This is deep! A bit too deep for my tiny brain.

[Chrono]

No its not. If humans didn't have eyes and the anatomy for light perception we wouldn't perceive blackness. Colour does not exist outside of our minds, as with sound. What's your perception of sonar like? Black is the absense of light pigments which we translate to the colour black. When you look around you, is there any conceptual difference between black objects and non black objects?

How does a conceptual difference have any bearing on reality? The very definition of colour requires light without it you have no colour. Anyone who is colour blind will still see black as black because it's an absence of rather than an existence of.

In your example of having no eyes it makes no difference; perceiving black is the same with or without eyes as there is no light being returned. In a pitch black room what is the perceptual difference between the person with eyes or the person without?

[Red_Polo]

No its not. If humans didn't have eyes and the anatomy for light perception we wouldn't perceive blackness. Colour does not exist outside of our minds, as with sound. What's your perception of sonar like? Black is the absense of light pigments which we translate to the colour black. When you look around you, is there any conceptual difference between black objects and non black objects?

When exactly do you ever look at an object that is truly black?

Everyday objects we call black are not. They are colours we can perceive which are close to black.

What pattern of innervation at rods/cones would you expect from a black object? None.

[Kenneth]

But again, the last point is not relevant. Is phantom limb pain not actual pain?

[Red_Polo]

But again, the last point is not relevant. Is phantom limb pain not actual pain?

Don't see how it's irrelevant.

Phantom limb pain is not analagous at all. It's caused by innervation of the residual efferent neurones from the amputated limb, which is why we localise the pain the same way as before the limb was lost.

[Kenneth]

Ok, ignoring phantom limb pain , it is irrelevant because the mechanism for creating an image is not relevant to our perception of it.

[Shaggy]

kin ell

Evra's a right cunt isn't he

[Kenneth]

thank **** we can't see him, only the absence of not him.

[Phoenix07]

thank **** we can't see him, only the absence of not him.

[Red_Polo]

Ok, ignoring phantom limb pain , it is irrelevant because the mechanism for creating an image is not relevant to our perception of it.

Well, it's clearly not irrelevant no, but I know what you mean now

I think you're conflating two different issues - the physiological perception of something physical and the psychological perception of the information this produces.

kin ell

Evra's a right cunt isn't he

QED my good fellow