QPR Post-Match Thread

[Lecter]

In a discussion, its best not to swear at people. Don't call me daft either.

Suarez played excellent against Everton, and was pretty decent against Stoke. Same with QPR. My point is that he can put the ball in the net, as proven there.

But again, dont swear at me, or call me daft.

My point is he doesnt do it often enough over here

Dont be condescending towards me otherwise I'll tell you where to go

[Lecter]

We simply don't score enough goals as a team and the whole lot of them have to take the blame for it. We played well for about 75 minutes last night and then 15 minutes of madness cost us the 3 points, regardless of last night though all of the first team players have to stand up and be counted with chipping in for goals.

18 goals at home and 17 away is ****ing woeful (in the league)

Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt, Henderson, Downing & Adam all need to be doing more on a more consistent basis infront of goal and quite honestly a few of them in that list should be on a warning that unless they improve dramatically between now and the summer they should start looking for another club!

[Craig_H]

I need to break this down

The football this year has been largely dross. I don't know how anyone can dispute that. We have scored 35 goals in 29 games - the same as Hodgson's WEST BROM, and fewer (that's fewer) than Norwich, Blackburn, Sunderland and Fulham. FWIW in 04/05 we scored 52 in the league.

I totally disagree that it's been dross. We've had about 4-5 games where it's been dross, the majority of it has been pretty good (very good at times) but lacking the cutting edge in the final third. Both in terms of creative spark and converting chances. And yes, Kenny cant go without some blame on that, because he spent money buying players to give us both of those things and they havent. He's not beyond accountability on that front.

I dont, however, consider the fact that we've got the final bit wrong (putting ball in net) to equate to the idea that our football has generally been dross. The chance conversion stat says an awful lot. If we only convert about 7% of chances, and get 35 goals, then clearly the problem is that 7% figure. We dont go into (most) games wondering if we'll get chances, we worry about them not going in. Posts, bars, missed penos...

I just don't see any signs of progress. I don't wanna be a Cup team. The Cups we've won and are challenging for have been won in recent years by teams like Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Portsmouth. As nice as they are, they are no yardstick by which to measure progress.

I've got to take issue with a bit of this too.

The recent League Cup finals have been:

Cardiff v Liverpool
Birmingham v Arsenal
Man Utd v Villa
Man Utd v Spurs
Spurs v Chelsea
Arsenal v Chelsea
Man Utd v Wigan
Liverpool v Chelsea

So out of the last 16 finalists, only 3 havent been a 'big' team.

What is our plan? And how do Adam, Downing, Carroll & Henderson fit into it? Because I haven't got a clue and that's a major worry for me - I have very little faith that Kenny will improve things significantly if given another year.

And we need significant improvement to even reach acceptable levels.

I see where you're coming from with this and i share those concerns - so even though i might be in a different corner than you regarding Kenny and his position, i dont NOT see the problems. But, as i've asked already, why should Kenny only have one year to get things right when those before have had 6?

[Lecter]

Is it true we've won 9 out of 10 when he doesn't start? And lost something like 450 when he does start?

Whats the stat about Carroll starting???

[Alex]

My point is he doesnt do it often enough over here

Dont be condescending towards me otherwise I'll tell you where to go

[Craig_H]

Kenny signed a 2 year contract didn't he? so for me he gets at least that long and if we make progress next season then he should get a new deal.

It may be groundhog day but this summer is vital for us, we may have hoped for better at the time but signing Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll has padded out the squad.
We need 3 players, with pace, physicality, creativity to come in as first choice players.
I don't expect us to be in the running to sign Hazard for example but there are more than enough players out there who would improve us.
That, as I understand it is what Comolli is here for. Time for him to produce.

I still think 2 years is too little time generally speaking, but i understand why people would be asking serious questions if 2 years went by and things still werent improving or going backwards. And yeah, if it was a 2 year contract then it makes sense to evaluate after those 2 years.

[Craig_H]

In a discussion, its best not to swear at people. Don't call me daft either.

Suarez played excellent against Everton, and was pretty decent against Stoke. Same with QPR. My point is that he can put the ball in the net, as proven there.

But again, dont swear at me, or call me daft.

To be fair Alex, he didnt swear at, nor did he actually call you daft.

[Lecter]

I still think 2 years is too little time generally speaking, but i understand why people would be asking serious questions if 2 years went by and things still werent improving or going backwards. And yeah, if it was a 2 year contract then it makes sense to evaluate after those 2 years.

I think its a 3 year deal

[Fierce]

This is such a perfect little summary of things, especially after last night.

I didnt post on this thread last night because i wanted to watch the game back on tv, to see if i'd missed things and my initial judgement was skewed. So i did.

And my conclusion is still the same. People have reacted to last night with emotion, which is fair enough, but in the cold light of day, we werent 'disgraceful' or '****' etc, we simply werent. We ****ing battered them and it's the same old issue of chance conversion, a team of even reasonable clinicalness in front of goal would've scored 5 last night.

The same issue keeps coming back and yes, i know the results arent good enough, shipping 3 goals in that manner isnt good enough and without doubt where we are isnt good enough but it's all too easy to allow those things to misguidedly tell you we were '****' in games and that it was a 'disgrace' when in actual fact, no it wasnt.

We pissed all over them last night and barring for a couple of idiotic errors in the latter stages of the game, we'd have cruised to an easy win, nobody would be questioning Kenny and nobody would be shouting 'disgrace'.

The team selected was good enough, the system was working fine and 99 times out of a hundred we win that game, and nothing much is wrong with the night's work. I fail to see how it's Kenny's fault that people made basic daft errors at the back. Short of buying expensive world class defenders who nigh-on NEVER make mistakes, you cant legislate for what happened. Nobody's crystal ball would've told them that Skrtel was going to duck under a high ball and that Enrique would slip - so why should Kenny's?

In no way am i saying it's ok to have lost that game, or that it's ok to draw at home to so many ****e teams, or that it's ok that we are where we are in the table - it's not and things need addressing. But by god, emotion has sure as hell run logic out of town.

But we finished 7th under Rafa. I know there was things going on above him but the mere 'result' (if we're going to solely focus on them) is that we finished 7th.

And even forgetting Hodgson's time, what positions were we finishing under Souness? Rafa's CL win bought him time after what was a failed debut league season. Kenny's cup win(s) should do the same. And that's even before we get onto how absurd it is to just sack a manager after a year.

Houllier got 6 years, Rafa did too. Unless something unthinkable should happen regarding league position, why should Kenny only get one?

[Alex]

To be fair Alex, he didnt swear at, nor did he actually call you daft.

He said

"Dont be ****ing daft"

[Craig_H]

I think its a 3 year deal

Fair play. I certainly think one is entitled to expect to see improvement within a three year time frame, if not two...and then if it doesnt happen, question the position of the manager.

Not 13 months though.

[Craig_H]

He said

"Dont be ****ing daft"

Yeah, so he didnt say you WERE daft - he said dont BE daft.

If i had a kid and wanted to give him advice - and said "Dont be a criminal", it doesnt mean i'm saying he IS one, does it?

[Shaggy]

I need to break this down



I totally disagree that it's been dross. We've had about 4-5 games where it's been dross, the majority of it has been pretty good (very good at times) but lacking the cutting edge in the final third. Both in terms of creative spark and converting chances. And yes, Kenny cant go without some blame on that, because he spent money buying players to give us both of those things and they havent. He's not beyond accountability on that front.

I dont, however, consider the fact that we've got the final bit wrong (putting ball in net) to equate to the idea that our football has generally been dross. The chance conversion stat says an awful lot. If we only convert about 7% of chances, and get 35 goals, then clearly the problem is that 7% figure. We dont go into (most) games wondering if we'll get chances, we worry about them not going in. Posts, bars, missed penos...




I've got to take issue with a bit of this too.

The recent League Cup finals have been:

Cardiff v Liverpool
Birmingham v Arsenal
Man Utd v Villa
Man Utd v Spurs
Spurs v Chelsea
Arsenal v Chelsea
Man Utd v Wigan
Liverpool v Chelsea

So out of the last 16 finalists, only 3 havent been a 'big' team.



I see where you're coming from with this and i share those concerns - so even though i might be in a different corner than you regarding Kenny and his position, i dont NOT see the problems. But, as i've asked already, why should Kenny only have one year to get things right when those before have had 6?

Re the League Cup finalists, those big clubs were also winning/challenging for leagues. At the moment, we look like a mid-table club having a couple of good Cup runs and it's not a yardstick by which to measure progress. The league is the only yardstick and it is abject.

Re Houllier/Benitez getting 6 years, I believe there were many more signs of progress than what we're seeing now.

I will be surprised if FSG stand for this, to be honest.

And for what it's worth, I don't want Kenny sacked and am absolutely not calling for his head. But if he stepped down, I'd be relieved. Immensely sad it didn't work out, but relieved. I'd love nothing more than for him to turn it round next season but I've got very little faith that he will.

[Phoenix07]

Dalglish signed a 3 year contract.

[Alex]

Yeah, so he didnt say you WERE daft - he said dont BE daft.

If i had a kid and wanted to give him advice - and said "Dont be a criminal", it doesnt mean i'm saying he IS one, does it?

Ok then Craig. You win