Manager Poll

[kris90210]

But you're making asumptions as well ! You even do it in the same sentence

my point was that we just don't know, and therefore should be cautios when dishing out blame. The truth is, none of us know the extent of Comolli's influence over the signings. It's fact that Kenny has the final say though, so the buck definitely stops with him. That's my opinion anyway

[Phil_Neal]

All in all, while in no way absolving Kenny of responsibility for our purchases, or how they have been used especially, I think it is very valid for us to be questioning the level of responsibility Comolli should be taking, especially for the hideous fees paid (which most definitely is more his dept than Kenny's).

So what if he had said "Kenny, I think you are mad to spend all your budget on Carroll?" but Kenny did it anyway as he makes the final call?

Plus he has backed Kenny to the hilt; something most people on here are happy to do. Maybe he has been supportive given Kenny's excellent first half of 2011?

I think most people will never understand Comolli's role a) because they are simply pig ignorant, b) they do not want to, c) have to blame someone else.

I'm not saying he is not to blame but you have no proof and the only proof is is that the manager and the players are underperforming as a unit and that is where the immediate focus of corrective action should stand.

[Phil_Neal]

my point was that we just don't know, and therefore should be cautios when dishing out blame. The truth is, none of us know the extent of Comolli's influence over the signings. It's fact that Kenny has the final say though, so the buck definitely stops with him. That's my opinion anyway

Indeed, well said.

We should focus on why we have a massively under performing 61yr old being backed by the fans for a long term project. That is utter nonsense. It's crazy.

[MrMichael]

my point was that we just don't know, and therefore should be cautios when dishing out blame. The truth is, none of us know the extent of Comolli's influence over the signings. It's fact that Kenny has the final say though, so the buck definitely stops with him. That's my opinion anyway

The buck always stops with the manager really, and rightly so. However.... part of the issue with at least some of our purchases is the fees, and that surely is Comolli's dept. Henderson is a great example here. Would anyone be on his back the way they have been if the lad had cost say, ~£7m. I really don't think we would have been. Downing too, if he'd been £10m his performances still wouldn't have been good enough, but would it seem like such a disastrous buy, or would more of us be looking at it thinking "well I can see what the idea was, crosses for Carroll etc, shame its not worked but we can sell him for £8m-ish, no real harm done". Absolutely this season on the pitch would still not have been good enough, and for that the buck does indeed stop straight with Kenny, but overall had be not been quite so profligate, had we not made so many gargantuan (c.Frank) **** ups in terms of money spent, I personally don't think the current situation would seem quite so bad.

[Phil_Neal]

The buck always stops with the manager really, and rightly so. However.... part of the issue with at least some of our purchases is the fees, and that surely is Comolli's dept. Henderson is a great example here. Would anyone be on his back the way they have been if the lad had cost say, ~£7m. I really don't think we would have been. Downing too, if he'd been £10m his performances still wouldn't have been good enough, but would it seem like such a disastrous buy, or would more of us be looking at it thinking "well I can see what the idea was, crosses for Carroll etc, shame its not worked but we can sell him for £8m-ish, no real harm done". Absolutely this season on the pitch would still not have been good enough, and for that the buck does indeed stop straight with Kenny, but overall had be not been quite so profligate, had we not made so many gargantuan (c.Frank) **** ups in terms of money spent, I personally don't think the current situation would seem quite so bad.

Henderson is a kid, captain of England (at his level) and Sunderland, a great talent and tore us to shreds as a youth player.

Downing has consistently been one of the best crossers in the EPL until we bought him and player of the year for Villa.

Carroll had broken into England, had a good goal ratio and perceived to be a developing powerhouse forward.

Based on the above these 3 could turn out to be great as much as they have disappointed. They could all still be great for us when used correctly by the right manager

[MrMichael]

So what if he had said "Kenny, I think you are mad to spend all your budget on Carroll?" but Kenny did it anyway as he makes the final call?

Plus he has backed Kenny to the hilt; something most people on here are happy to do. Maybe he has been supportive given Kenny's excellent first half of 2011?

I think most people will never understand Comolli's role a) because they are simply pig ignorant, b) they do not want to, c) have to blame someone else.

I'm not saying he is not to blame but you have no proof and the only proof is is that the manager and the players are underperforming as a unit and that is where the immediate focus of corrective action should stand.

That is pretty ridiculous. There are quotes, posted above, from the people involved, to show that Comolli said no such thing. If you really believe that FSG would have given Kenny, a guy who they hadn't given a contract to and had only been in charge for a couple of weeks, £35m to spend when their hand picked guy would have thought that crazy... well, then you're crazy.

So tell me, if so many of us are "Pig ignorant" and can't understand, what is Comolli's role as far as you're concerned? On the pitch is a big issue - for sure, that's down to Kenny ( & Clarke etc). But the disasterous fees paid for some players... does that not logically come down to the guy whose role is to conduct the negotiations?

Seriously dude, stop making everything fit your agenda. We know you want Kenny out. A lot of people agree with you, and the vast majority of those who don't yet aren't happy with things as they are either. I really don't see anyone on here "backing Kenny to the hilt", those who want him to stay at the moment want that for stability and because they think that he'll either turn it around, or if it continues to go pear shaped he'll step down anyway. The point some of us are making is nothing to do with passing blame onto someone else, its highlighting that if Kenny does go, should Comolli not also be held responsible for some of this mess? Should another manager have to work with this guy who so far seems to have made Parry look like a sharp negotiator?

[G]

After every signing we made in the summer the club website interviewed Comolli about each player,his reasons why we went for them and how happy he was etc.They actually make pretty cringe worthy reading right now.

They never interviewed the manager about these things.

Also it was Comolli who said during the summer that "English or British players,or players with premier league experience" would be prioritised because "that's what we feel we need right now".

He takes a very large part of the blame for the failures as does anyone else involved in formulating that strategy including Kenny.

At least they will now see that this summers strategy must be wholly different if we are to succeed,though I expect it would have been anyway.Last summer was about consolidation and hopefully improvement,this one would be about pushing on.

Now it must be about righting the wrongs of last year

[kris90210]

The buck always stops with the manager really, and rightly so. However.... part of the issue with at least some of our purchases is the fees, and that surely is Comolli's dept. Henderson is a great example here. Would anyone be on his back the way they have been if the lad had cost say, ~£7m. I really don't think we would have been. Downing too, if he'd been £10m his performances still wouldn't have been good enough, but would it seem like such a disastrous buy, or would more of us be looking at it thinking "well I can see what the idea was, crosses for Carroll etc, shame its not worked but we can sell him for £8m-ish, no real harm done". Absolutely this season on the pitch would still not have been good enough, and for that the buck does indeed stop straight with Kenny, but overall had be not been quite so profligate, had we not made so many gargantuan (c.Frank) **** ups in terms of money spent, I personally don't think the current situation would seem quite so bad.

Yeah, can't argue with any of that. Comolli is in something of a no-win situation though in my opinion. If he doesn't find the extra few mil to land Kenny's number 1 target then he's criticised for being Parryesq. If he does find the money, and the signings don't work out, then he's criticised for that too.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he deserves criticism. He clearly has a large part to play in all the transfers taking place at the club. I just think we should bear in mind that his role isn't as black and white as some would like to think.

Thinking about it, I'm as annoyed with him over letting Aquilani go on that pathetic deal as anything else he's done.

[MrMichael]

Henderson is a kid, captain of England (at his level) and Sunderland, a great talent and tore us to shreds as a youth player.

Downing has consistently been one of the best crossers in the EPL until we bought him and player of the year for Villa.

Carroll had broken into England, had a good goal ratio and perceived to be a developing powerhouse forward.

Based on the above these 3 could turn out to be great as much as they have disappointed. They could all still be great for us when used correctly by the right manager

Right, so then Kenny (who according to you is responsible for all that) chose good players? He's just not using them right?

Fwiw, I don't entirely disagree with any of those statements about those 3. Although we still massively overpaid for all of them, I don't think anyone can deny that. I can see a slight argument about the use of Carroll (though I think he's just not a very good all round footballer), however, I'd love to know just how Kenny has not been using Downing and Henderson right? Especially Downing, I do not see how the manager is responsible for his lack of bottle and inability to take on a full back consistently? Kenny has been very supportive of the guy and played him loads, the outcome though has not been good. And what else could he have done with Henderson (who in time might turn out well)?

[MrMichael]

After every signing we made in the summer the club website interviewed Comolli about each player,his reasons why we went for them and how happy he was etc.They actually make pretty cringe worthy reading right now.

They never interviewed the manager about these things.

Also it was Comolli who said during the summer that "English or British players,or players with premier league experience" would be prioritised because "that's what we feel we need right now".

He takes a very large part of the blame for the failures as does anyone else involved in formulating that strategy including Kenny.

At least they will now see that this summers strategy must be wholly different if we are to succeed,though I expect it would have been anyway.Last summer was about consolidation and hopefully improvement,this one would be about pushing on.

Now it must be about righting the wrongs of last year

Yeah, can't argue with any of that. Comolli is in something of a no-win situation though in my opinion. If he doesn't find the extra few mil to land Kenny's number 1 target then he's criticised for being Parryesq. If he does find the money, and the signings don't work out, then he's criticised for that too.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he deserves criticism. He clearly has a large part to play in all the transfers taking place at the club. I just think we should bear in mind that his role isn't as black and white as some would like to think.

Thinking about it, I'm as annoyed with him over letting Aquilani go on that pathetic deal as anything else he's done.

Yeah, fair enough dude. I do think its worth pointing out though that Kenny etc have been getting grief for the transfers along with the on the pitch stuff for some time on here while Comolli's role wasn't really being talked about at all until some of us raised it quite recently. I'm sure you're right though that it isn't a black and white thing, but I would like to start to see some evidence of some good work from him. You know, one or two "good deals", a couple of really promising youngsters brought in who surprise us, stuff like that, or questions about what he is doing will I think start to get louder, whether Kenny is still our manager by then or someone else has the reins.

[kris90210]

Yeah, fair enough dude. I do think its worth pointing out though that Kenny etc have been getting grief for the transfers along with the on the pitch stuff for some time on here while Comolli's role wasn't really being talked about at all until some of us raised it quite recently. I'm sure you're right though that it isn't a black and white thing, but I would like to start to see some evidence of some good work from him. You know, one or two "good deals", a couple of really promising youngsters brought in who surprise us, stuff like that, or questions about what he is doing will I think start to get louder, whether Kenny is still our manager by then or someone else has the reins.

He said above that Suarez was coming in before Kenny joined, so he can take some credit for that. And if true, that puts him massively in credit in my book.

[peekay]

The thing about scouting is that the majority of us would have said that the players we signed in the last transfer window (bar a couple) were not good enough, no science involved just watching the premiership regularly.

Football is now available wall to wall, you can watch all manner of leagues without even leaving your front room. Opinions on players can be found via various football blogs or even simply google.

Most of us know of players who are far better than the dross signed.

How can it be difficult?

I agree with every word you say here. That is what makes this summer's transfer disasters even more heartbreaking. At least Aquilani, Cheyrou - I can rationalize. It was a risky punt taken by a manager which did not work out. This summer's transfers most rational posters on est1892 could have done better.

[Mostar]

Why?? Mate, we don't know the extent of his role. We don't know enough about his working relationship with Dalglish to make an informed judgement about his performance.

For all we know, he wanted us to sign Mata et al, but Kenny said, 'no, I want premiership proven...' We have no idea.

All we can do is trust that the people behind the scenes know what is going on, and if he is majorly culpable for out transfer policy, then it's not gone unnoticed and something will be done about it in the summer.

Valid point.

That said, when it comes to signing players both of them have their fair share in it and both should be fully responsible for how things panned out so far.

Even if the final decision strictly rested with Kenny, Comolli was the one who identified targets and presented choices and from that standpoint they are both accountable even if the burden of blame may not be shared equally.

[Icon]

Isn't Camolli sort of a Jonah Hill (from Moneyball) with more power?

Looks at stats, costs etc?

[Phoenix07]

el matador's post on the previous page is spot on about the fans.

Comolli's role then is similar to Macia's role under Rafa, just more glorified. Macia drew up targets alongside Rafa and took part in talks too.

What we need is a proper footballing CEO who can do the negotiating for transfers and give the manager control.

We already know what the philosophy of the club is and how we want to play.

I'd like to see people like Dein or Kenyon brought in with the manager (currently Kenny) being given total control over how they'd like the team to play within the parameters outlined in the Academy; technical play reliant on making space, tactically intelligent, mentally strong, organised etc.