Manager Poll

[Shaggy]

And yet I didn't speak to a single person on Saturday who had faith in Kenny & Comolli. I obviously didn't speak to them all , but the relentlessly depressed/irate atmosphere suggests the feeling in the ground isn't all that different to that on the forums.

[Darkon]

rafa never managed in that season. roy had the preseason to himself.

maybe he meant within a year?

[MrMichael]

For me, it's not just that Rafa has the perfect credentials, the perfect CV, the UBER-****ing knowledge of the game (which EVERY player has mentioned, how he comes up with things to improve you as a player they couldn't even have fathomed), but it's also to do with the fact he's an adopted scouser. How he 'gets' the city. How graceful he's worked for the city and the club off the field. Hillsborough. Charities. His wife. His kids. It's a perfect match if ever there was one. And that's before we even look at his footballing knowledge... and how he single-handedly let us fans know what was really going on behind the scenes under H&G. People conveniently forget that (if they ever even realised). 'Yea thanks Rafa, now **** off, 7th position'. Incredible.

*dons flamesuit*

This is a very one sided assessment of the man. Most of it has some merit, but there are other things you are not acknowledging which do constitute downsides to Rafa. He was not good at handling the media, nor was he good at handling some types of player, especially after the split with Pako Ayesteran (who, imo, was an integral part of Rafa's success). He made a lot of enemies within and around the club. He was very much a self-publicist and on occasion could be accused of putting his own interests before those of the club. For a sustained period as our manager he was openly flirting with Real Madrid, and was never afraid of washing dirty linen in public when it was in his interest to. He was insanely rigid with regard to substitutions, and very stubborn with regard to aspects of team selection and tactics when things were not going right. He brought in some great players, but he also made some bad mistakes in the transfer market too. Overall, the guy had many upsides, but he was not perfect and the near beatification of him now by some of our fans is somewhat rose-tinting things imo.

[Kenneth]

maybe he meant within a year?

Maybe, but so does every club/team who appoints a caretaker manager.

[Shaggy]

I think the fact he was the first to expose Hicks & Gillett, and then took them on risking his position and future for the good of the club and its supporters, removes any notion of him putting his own interests before those of the club.

[little dave hedgehog]

i think special patrol group is a stupid name for a hamster.

[Shaggy]

Okay, I'll change it then! Hello Cliff Richard!

[MrMichael]

I think the fact he was the first to expose Hicks & Gillett, and then took them on risking his position and future for the good of the club and its supporters, removes any notion of him putting his own interests before those of the club.

I'm not sure about this "first to expose Hicks & Gilette thing". What exactly is that based on? The way I remember it plenty of people were concerned about them from the moment it became obvious they had lied and had placed their acquisition debt on the club. Rafa's issues with them came later when transfer funds dried up and after the Klinsmann thing happened.

In any case, I'm not going to get into an argument about this AGAIN as I know how futile the whole discussion is and much of it is about perception rather than reality, but opinions about Rafa were not polarized for years during his tenure at the club for no reason, and just as those who want him back have a valid point of view, so do those who feel that time has gone and there must be other options who could do as good a job without some of the baggage.

[Nicey]

there is no doubting that rafa has been a great manager with us, but has also had his very annoying, frustrating periods. he steadfastly played baros when he couldnt score in a brothel. smicer too. several other players were favourites, despite form or effort. his constant tinkering, just to prove he is a genius football mystic, oh per-lease
his involvement with the politics of ownership was a very difficult period. i dont doubt it would have been incredibly difficult for him to keep things private and just keep his mind on team affairs. maybe if he had he would still have been there. who knows, now...

although i would be inclined to give kenny more time, unfortunately i just dont see him showing any flair or enthusiasm for the job, little motivation of the players, or any tactical understanding.

Rafa was fighting hard on our behalf against a couple of cunts, hence the politics, I seriously doubt he would or would need to do that again with our current owners, also nobody lives a completely charmed life, mistakes are always going to happen .. but at the end of the day We feared no team in Europe and they were all scared ****less of us .... that right there my friend says it all

[little dave hedgehog]

you *******.

[Nicey]

at the end of the day We feared no team in Europe and they were all scared ****less of us ....


let that ring around your ears for a moment ... because you know what ... it was true

Not only did teams fear us, Managers feared Rafa, WorldClass managers regularly got there tactical ass's handed to them time and time again

He has to come back

[MrMichael]

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66262

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=67354

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=68783

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=67823

Some interesting reading in those randomly selected Rafa threads from the second half of his last season (and not just for the subtle revisions that the odd poster has made in their opinion since then). Just as a reminder really that despite the horrible situation we were in off the field, on the pitch, well actually things weren't that different really from how they are now, 2 years on. Underperformances, mutterings, people not sure if the manager should get another season to turn it around or if it was time for a change. Depressing really.

[Nicey]

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66262

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=67354

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=68783

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=67823

Some interesting reading in those randomly selected Rafa threads from the second half of his last season (and not just for the subtle revisions that the odd poster has made in their opinion since then). Just as a reminder really that despite the horrible situation we were in off the field, on the pitch, well actually things weren't that different really from how they are now, 2 years on. Underperformances, mutterings, people not sure if the manager should get another season to turn it around or if it was time for a change. Depressing really.

Well I for one think the man earned a lot more time, seriously people under estimate how difficult it was, how much uncertaintity there was, for ****s sake fans marched to the ground against the owners, who were publically fighting, slagging off the fans, tapping up other managers, we were signing ****e players ... not been backed for the right players, the press were after him from day one .. he kept his head up throughout all of this ... Seriously at a stable Liverpool Rafa would clear the **** up ... can you remember the chants ...can you remember dancing in the stands .. the best mid field in the world ..those European nights .. those wins over United .. him sitting cross legged on the ****ing ground like ****ing Yoda at the Penalty shoot outs ... Thats ****ing football ... God I miss him

[frank the tank]

In the heat of the moment, when you are watching LFC getting out-classed by Wigan Athletic then it's very easy to boo and say "kenny out" etc......

However, in reality, i think this is very much a case of be careful what you wish for. Look at Wolves, they sacked McCarthy without a thought of who to replace him with. And are left with a bigger bag of ****e than before.

Now i am not comparing LFC with Wolves, but the outcome could be the same.

Personally i would love Rafa as manager of LFC again. I actually think that he could be the man that makes a top top striker out of Andy Carroll (look at how he turned Crouch from a journeyman with half a decent season into an England international.......everyone laughed when we bought him for £7m from relegated Southampton......and look at Mista for Valencia, Rafa left and he went back to being ****e..... same could be said of Torres actually - he was only a prolific goalscorer when he had Benitez as his manager and I include his Atletico days in that!). However, i think there was a lot of ****e with Rafa and Gerrard / Carragher that is probably irreparable.....maybe the best time for Rafa to step back into Anfield would be in 3 or 4 years time, after Kenny leaves, and when Gerrard, Carra are no longer players.....

Anyway, back to Kenny. At the end of the day, we were all having group wanks on here at the start of the season - even without the results. For the first time in ages, we could see that LFC were attacking, we were looking very promising and had a genuine sense of optimism.

Kenny has recently said that we would add up the points at the end of the season and as a club do a self-assessment. However, I think if you look at the season as a whole, we were screwed by the a few things:
- Lucas was our best midfielder and missed 2/3's of the season
- Gerrard never really got going. Had we had him fit for the majority of the season then who knows what would have happened..... now i know people will say we need a squad and all that but i am convinced that if you took Rooney out of the Mancs for most of the season, RVP out of the Arsenal team for most of the season then these teams would struggle as well......take Messi out of Barcelonas team and they probably won't win the league or champions league. It's just a fact of life....
- We missed Suarez for 9 games through suspension....

Also, it wasn't Kenny that missed 8 out of 12 penalties...... it wasn't kenny that hit the post 2000 times this season....... it wasn't kenny that got suspended for 9 games this season.....

I think we are maybe 2 players short of having a very very good team - although these will probably need to be top-end players in the Cavani, Hazard, Llorente mode as opposed to the Charlie Adam mould...... however, i don't think Kenny's transfers have been that bad to be honest:
- I think Henderson will turn out to be a very very good player for us....
- i think Enrique is very handy although probably needs the kick up the arse that genuine competition for his place would provide...
- i think Adam can be a handy squad player when we get Lucas back and sign someone else....
- i think Downing will end up coming good next season.....


However, i do think that we need one or two very good players to join this summer - i expect that we might get rid of Maxi and Kuyt so maybe a winger and another striker would fit the bill.....

Also, i know we are LFC and we need to be back in the European Cup, but the Europa might not be a bad thing for a year or transition. I think this can give us the opportunity to play the younger players like Flanagan and Kelly and Sterling and maybe Coady / Wisdom as well. This season Spurs were able to give Jake Livermore a few games and he did well in the Europa. Now he is a regular sub for them in the league. I think if we genuienly have some talented young players, then we can get them experienced in the europa and then it's up to them to go on from there.......that is an advantage we wouldnt be able to do in the Champions League to be honest.....

Also, one final thing......Kenny is LFC through and through. He is a legend but he loves Liverpool football club probably more than anyone. If he didn't think he was the right man to lead the football team, then he'd say so and resign. So i don't think we even need to have this debate.....

[MrMichael]

Well I for one think the man earned a lot more time, seriously people under estimate how difficult it was, how much uncertaintity there was, for ****s sake fans marched to the ground against the owners, who were publically fighting, slagging off the fans, tapping up other managers, we were signing ****e players ... not been backed for the right players, the press were after him from day one .. he kept his head up throughout all of this ... Seriously at a stable Liverpool Rafa would clear the **** up ... can you remember the chants ...can you remember dancing in the stands .. the best mid field in the world ..those European nights .. those wins over United .. him sitting cross legged on the ****ing ground like ****ing Yoda at the Penalty shoot outs ... Thats ****ing football ... God I miss him

Nicey, I love your passion, but this is what I mean about the rose-tinting. Not that most of that isn't somewhat correct, but its not the whole truth, at least as I remember it.

I remember the good times. They were great. Amazing in fact.

I remember the best midfield in the world. Until Rafa decided to replace Alonso with Gareth Barry anyway.

I also remember the football. When it worked it was really great. At times, as some of those threads show, it was ****ing dreadful too.

The press weren't after Rafa from day one. It was more like day two. The press are c*nts, absolute c*nts, but Rafa put their backs up. As he did an awful lot of ex-players, people around the club, and some fans too. I loved the guy for his individuality, but some (and I mean "some") of the issues with the media etc were his own doing.

The owners didn't sign the players. In his first few years, Rafa was well backed in the transfer market, Sure he wanted more, but what manager doesn't? He still was backed pretty well. And some of the players he bought were brilliant. Some, as he himself admitted in an interview not so long ago, were not. In the last 2 years he got screwed, I totally agree with that. But many managers have to deal with that sort of thing, and worse. And many dream of getting to sign, and work with, some of the talent he did.

Oh god, I'm getting into this one properly aren't I? I haven't got the commitment for this really