Norwich (A) Post Match Thread

[dww]

stats are useful, but its how you interpret them. for me, possession isnt a game winner. for all your possession there must be penetration and attempts on goal to make it count.
looking at the posted stats it shows that possession isnt a crucial factor in how many attempts it brings.

for all our possession [67%] we managed 16 attempts, the same as norwich, who only had 33% possession...

comparing stats with the barca/sevilla game.
barca had 71% possession with 15 attempts. sevilla manage only 8 attempts from 29% posession.

arsenal/southampton.
both had 50% possession.
arsenal had 23 attempts, southampton only 11.

I still think the main problem highlighted is that we aren't defending well enough. Giving Norwich 16 attempts with only 33% possession is bad. Either that or you are suggesting we should adopt a Olsson/Hodgson approach to the game and I doubt that

If you score 5 goals you clearly had 'enough' attempts and it seems a similar productivity to Barcelona, who rumour have it are quite good. Risking sounding like MattShark, there is an element of creating quality chances rather than the pure quantity.

[red g]

I still think the main problem highlighted is that we aren't defending well enough. Giving Norwich 16 attempts with only 33% possession is bad. Either that or you are suggesting we should adopt a Olsson/Hodgson approach to the game and I doubt that

If you score 5 goals you clearly had 'enough' attempts and it seems a similar productivity to Barcelona, who rumour have it are quite good. Risking sounding like MattShark, there is an element of creating quality chances rather than the pure quantity.

Is it though? As they had **** all posession maybe those 16 attempts are shots from outside the box out of pure frustration, which would then expalin why so many players seem to score great goals against us not withstanding that rodgers has only been in the job 6 months and everybody scores there career best or only goal a season against us.

[dww]

Is it though? As they had **** all posession maybe those 16 attempts are shots from outside the box out of pure frustration, which would then expalin why so many players seem to score great goals against us not withstanding that rodgers has only been in the job 6 months and everybody scores there career best or only goal a season against us.

I think a lot of fans think the same - i.e. that players score their bets goals against their team. I've heard it from United fans too. I suspect it is observer bias.

I see your point about the attempts Norwich had but I think it has been a problem in other games too (letting the opposition have chances that is) which is what makes it seem bad to me. I would suggest that a lot of the chances we give away appear central and/or close in. I accept that is a very subjective view of mine and probably subject to being exaggerated by my worry about that sort of chance.

I agree with the point that Rodgers has only been here a short while. Swansea were generally **** at defending too though. I think it is an area he has to improve.

[Frenchie]

The thing is if you were an opposition manager to LFC how would you set up to beat us?

I think of Rafa and his past beating of RM and Barca. His team pressed high up the pitch and if the ball got through the team would reshape and be extremely difficult to break down and would counter attack real fast.

That is how to beat us right now.

[dom9]

The thing is if you were an opposition manager to LFC how would you set up to beat us?

Just stay patient and wait for the inevitable batch of suicidal mistakes.

[dww]

The basics of that approach are a pretty good setup against any team that is better than you. It is the specifics of how we nullified Messi and gave ourselves attacking options that were the really impressive bit from Rafa.

We aren't anywhere near the level of Barcelona of any recent vintage at the minute - keep it tight and exploit inevitable error seems a decent policy against us at the minute. We are, however, improving markedly (almost game on game IMO).

Another easy tactic would be wait for fullbacks to advance then play diagonal ball outside CBs with a forward making appropriate run.

[red g]

Just stay patient and wait for the inevitable batch of suicidal mistakes.

[Frenchie]

Just stay patient and wait for the inevitable batch of suicidal mistakes.

tru dat....at the moment...

[Neil Young]

We gave away far too many chances against Norwich, even ignoring the silly mistakes that cost the two goals. Norwich are crap but they could have scored quite a few.

I feel the idea is probably that the defensive aspect will improve as the players get more used to the overall style and the requirements this imposes. At the moment much is probably made of that in training, as it's the underpinning that Rodgers wants. Hodgson's underpinning was obviously zonal structure and defensive drills, with the vague hope that against mighty teams like Northampton we might nick a goal on the break, and if not then take the draw. Dalglish's was...ok, god knows, what that was, beyond great banter and team spirit.

At least I certainly hope the plan is to improve the defensive side.

[dom9]

To me it seems Rodgers bases his defensive tactics around trying to win the ball back as soon as possible rather than getting into a strong defensive shape and making sure that gaps are covered.

I think that's high risk because it means that players commit themselves to chasing the ball to the detriment of tactical discipline.

I hope I'm wrong, but I hope that changes for us in the near future. I can't see it.

[dww]

To me it seems Rodgers bases his defensive tactics around trying to win the ball back as soon as possible rather than getting into a strong defensive shape and making sure that gaps are covered.

I think that's high risk because it means that players commit themselves to chasing the ball to the detriment of tactical discipline.

I hope I'm wrong, but I hope that changes for us in the near future. I can't see it.

Aye. I worry that the problems that dogged AVB at Chelsea and were apparent at Swansea under Rodgers are inherent in the approach (at least in the PL).

[yamiedo]

Did they? I thought they conceded 51 goals?

They were expected to be relegated! I think thats pretty damn good...

Also, just had a look at the table. Swansea conceded the same as Newcastle and only 2 more than Arsenal. We (who were said to be good defensively last season) conceded 40. Only 8 teams had a better defensive record than Swansea. 51 is not bad at all for a team like Swansea.

[DannyMan2006]

To me it seems Rodgers bases his defensive tactics around trying to win the ball back as soon as possible rather than getting into a strong defensive shape and making sure that gaps are covered.

I think that's high risk because it means that players commit themselves to chasing the ball to the detriment of tactical discipline.

I hope I'm wrong, but I hope that changes for us in the near future. I can't see it.

That's wrong. He's been quoted as saying that if you can't win a game then you need to make sure you can't lose. Which basically means keeping a good defensive shape.

What the team is not doing at present is staying compact and pressing as a team. All too often I see one or two players pressing when the rest of the team is sitting back. Press together or sit back together. That's the correct strategy.

We'll get there, but we will suffer slips at the start, just as Rodgers said to be fair to him.

[dom9]

That's wrong. He's been quoted as saying that if you can't win a game then you need to make sure you can't lose. Which basically means keeping a good defensive shape.

What the team is not doing at present is staying compact and pressing as a team. All too often I see one or two players pressing when the rest of the team is sitting back. Press together or sit back together. That's the correct strategy.

We'll get there, but we will suffer slips at the start, just as Rodgers said to be fair to him.

It's not wrong. It's a different interpretation of the evidence to your interpretation.

To me, it seems that Rodgers wants to 'not lose' by keeping the ball and starving the opposition of possession. That is plan a. I have not seen any evidence of a plan b as yet, e.g. a disciplined defensive start out position with perhaps an emphasis on quick breaks to attack.

We agree that there is little defensive shape, but I argue that it is because of the tactics.

There is only one way to find out how it will pan out though.

[Mostar]

To me it seems Rodgers bases his defensive tactics around trying to win the ball back as soon as possible rather than getting into a strong defensive shape and making sure that gaps are covered.

I think that's high risk because it means that players commit themselves to chasing the ball to the detriment of tactical discipline.

That's wrong. He's been quoted as saying that if you can't win a game then you need to make sure you can't lose. Which basically means keeping a good defensive shape.

What the team is not doing at present is staying compact and pressing as a team. All too often I see one or two players pressing when the rest of the team is sitting back. Press together or sit back together. That's the correct strategy.

We'll get there, but we will suffer slips at the start, just as Rodgers said to be fair to him.

He and his players said more than few times that his goal is to control the possession and if you lose the ball you have to go and get it back as soon as possible.

Imo we sometimes force for the ball-recovery issue too much and abandon being patient and disciplined exposing our defensive weaknesses for which we paid dearly.

It will get better but we are not clicking yet defensively and Lucas absence is a big problem.