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Centre Midfield Will Keep Struggling Until A Change In Tactics

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    Centre Midfield Will Keep Struggling Until A Change In Tactics

    If you look on the Liverpool FC forums, on twitter and chat to many LFC fans the bulk of them feel that something is not working in centre midfield. I think there is no doubt, we have not been controlling games this season, as we would have liked. If you look at the below chart you will see we are allowing the opposition to have far too many shots on goal and we can’t keep relying on Mignolet to save the bulk of these:



    So what is the problem?

    There is usually a few arguments that occur when discussing the centre midfield:

    1) Lucas is not fit enough, mobile enough and is struggling as a result.

    2) Gerrard doesn’t have the legs anymore to play the role he is being asked.

    3) Both Lucas and Gerrard don’t have enough energy or mobility between them for the combination to work.

    4) We need to be playing with three in the midfield to give them help.

    5) Henderson or Allen should play instead of Lucas or Gerrard.

    I think there is no doubt that number 4 is valid and obviously three centre midfielders has more chance of controlling a match than two do. However if we do that, it means sacrificing another attacking player and that isn’t ideal, especially against the weaker sides when we should really be playing more than three match winners to ensure we win games. Also if Sturridge and Suarez are playing as a partnership, only having one more attacking player would limit our options when looking at formations, as two wide players would be less likely with three in midfield, unless we play with three at the back like we have done recently. But three at the back isn’t always the right formation to play, so we really need to find a centre midfield partnership that works and if Rodgers sticks with Lucas and Gerrard, then getting the best out of them. Actually, even playing with three at the back we haven’t controlled games and the centre midfield has still looked vulnerable. But I believe if we are going to play with two centre midfielders, it doesn’t matter which combination Rodgers selects, they will still struggle because of the tactics.

    I think Rodgers really doesn’t want to drop either Lucas or Gerrard for two reasons. Lucas is our best ball winner, we see this as he been near the top of the stat charts for most tackles for not only our team but in the whole league. For Gerrard it is simple, he is still a wonderful presence on the field with his composure on the ball and is still the best passer in the league for my money, certainly with his long passes, such as the one to Sturridge for the first goal against Sunderland. He launches counter attacks brilliantly and a lot of our best work has come on the counter attack this season. Actually some of our best football came on the counter attack last season, once the January additions joined the squad. But I don’t think many of our fans have an issue with Lucas and Gerrard in possession, both keep the ball very well. The issues have been defensively.

    But it isn’t just Lucas and Gerrard that have struggled as a combination. Even Henderson and Gerrard combination struggled many times during the weekend. When I say struggle, I mean struggle to control the match and Crystal Palace had far too much time and space on the weekend and should have had a few more goals if we are being honest. I actually thought Henderson played very well on the weekend, he was arguably man of the match, although that’s always a debatable question. But I think very few Liverpool fans would say he didn’t play well and he did give the midfield more energy. But as the stats show with Lucas he is breaking up play plenty of times, Gerrard is still influence games with his passing and ideally I think we’d have a combination of all three central. All doing what they do best.

    But for me whoever we select in a midfield two will struggle, because as a team we are not keeping possession as well as we should do, this obviously gives them more defending to do. Now that’s a team problem, not down to the centre midfielders, all of which have good pass completion stats for the season:

    - Gerrard: 85.5% (376 of 440 completed)

    - Lucas: 89.3% (316 of 354 completed)

    - Henderson: 85.8% (290 of 338 completed)

    So that is one thing where the team could help the centre midfield, if we keep the ball better, then obviously the less defending the team has to do.

    However for me the biggest issue is the defense, especially our centre backs have been far too deep. Now this isn’t a problem if the whole team are deep and compact. Yet we leave Sturridge and Suarez very high up the field, even Moses a lot of the time has freedom to stay high. This just creates a massive gap between our defense and attack, which gives the midfield a really tough job.

    If you look at the below charts it shows how we often look on the field and the amount of space the midfield two have to cover:



    Figure 1: How we mostly look during 4-4-2, defensively.



    Figure 2: How we look mostly when playing 3-4-1-2, defensively.

    I think that amount of space is hard for any midfield two to cover. But it really gives the midfield pair a problem, with the defense being so deep. They have a choice to either push up and press teams, but this would give the defense no protection and would ask for trouble. Or they drop deep and ensure there is little space between the defense and midfield, making us tough to break down and more often than not that is what they do. But they have to do it, because pressing would be a disaster with the defense that deep. If we are going to press you have to do it as a team, otherwise massive gaps will occur and they will be exploited.

    But the above pictures are when things are going to plan. Many times during games the gap is even bigger than the ones shown us and this just makes the issues for the midfield two even greater, as figures 3 and 4 show below:



    Figure 3: 4-4-2 – When we’re attacking.



    Figure 4: 3-4-1-2 – While Attacking

    As we know our full backs are given instructions to bomb forward every time we have the ball. Obviously the front two and other attacking players get forward as well. However our centre backs have still been staying deep and this makes the space between the defence and attack far too big. The thing is we attack at such pace, Gerrard gets the ball from the centre backs and it is often a long ball up to the front two and everyone rushing to get forward, but we are not keeping the possession well enough and this is giving the centre backs little chance to push up the field. Having said that even when we have kept the ball well at times they have been far too deep. I think this is because Rodgers wants space to open up the field and make it more likely for us to keep the ball. But when we lose the ball, which is inevitable, as all teams do it, then those gaps give the centre midfield a real problem, as I said whether to press or to protect the back four and I can understand why they are doing the latter, as it is the safest option.

    So what is the solution?

    Barring adding a centre midfield to help the midfield two, by including all of Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson in the same team. I really feel the team need to keep possession of the ball better. But more importantly the centre backs have to push up the field and make us far more compact as a team. This will reduce the space between our defense and attack, giving the centre midfield the opportunity to press and actually press as a team. It will also stop our side sitting back and inviting pressure, which we seem to be doing far too often.

    People will say we need to buy new players. But I think we could have Mascherano and Alonso in this team and it would struggle a lot more than it used to do under Benitez, due to the amount of space. No doubt, they would be better as they are two of the best players in the world in that position. But unless the defense push up the field they might struggle more than we think. Under Houiller and Benitez we used to have very little space between our defense, midfield and attack. Gerrard would be the link between midfield and attack, being a midfielder he could drop deep to help them if needed. I think Coutinho will help with this as he’s more energetic and better at tracking back than Moses. Under Houiller we’d play on the counter attack, so being deep was not a problem. At our best under Benitez we would move up and down the pitch as a unit – defending as a team and attacking as one. I don’t think we have done that this season, except the first half vs Stoke and first half vs Villa.



    Figure 5: Showing the less space Mascherano and Alonso had to cover under Benitez



    Figure 6: Showing the Benitez team attacking as a team, making it easier to press as a team and control midfield



    Figure 7: How the centre backs pushing up the field will help the current centre midfield two in 4-4-2



    Figure 8: How the centre backs pushing up the field will help the current centre midfield two in 3-4-1-2

    Conclusion

    As I said originally, the centre midfield are getting a lot of criticism recently. Some justified, some of it is harsh. I feel the side would be best having Henderson, Lucas and Gerrard all in midfield, as they all offer qualities that make us a better side. I think a midfield diamond might be best to get them all into the team, as well as having Coutinho central in a free role.

    However it doesn’t matter who we play in centre midfield, if the centre backs and defensive line continues to be far too deep they will have a thankless task and won’t know whether to press or sit back and protect the defense, as you can’t do both over such a large amount of space. It would also help massively if the team kept the ball better.

    It is easy to pick on the individual players, but I really think the tactics are the biggest issue. Get the centre backs pushing higher up the field, then we’ll be more compact as a team, can press more effectively, put teams under pressure, win possession in more dangerous places on the field and the centre midfielders will probably look far better.

    http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfiel...y-lfc4lifenet/
    Stop the cyberhate


    from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

    Susan Black

    #2
    I think the central argument is pretty strong but somewhat simplistic.

    I do think that given time Rodgers would be looking to make changes in that regard. The current system has clearly been a reaction to the open-ness we showed last season in deep midfield. These things are about balance.

    I think that the back 3 makes the issue of a deep midfield more significant.

    In the first halves of the first few games we used the space created by having a deep midfield well to switch play and keep possession with Gerrard and Lucas moving into space more often and more forward players contributing in that area too.
    "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
    -- William Blake

    Comment


      #3
      A problem is that our CM must cover so much space that they get so tired that we almost can't even counter attack in the second half.

      Another problem is of course that we had the best sweeper keeper in the world and that meant that we could play a very high defensive line.

      Reina and Mignolet are two very different keepers. To get the best out of Mignolet then you need to play a deep defensive line. To get the best out of Reina you need to play a high defensive line.

      You attack and defend as a team and the keeper is a part of the team.

      We really hasn't played as a unit this season and that is the main reason to our **** second half of the games.
      Stop the cyberhate


      from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

      Susan Black

      Comment


        #4
        a good opening post.

        For me - so far, the way rogers wants us to play, both in either the 4-3-3 or even the 3-4-1-2 formation, that no.3 applies

        "3) Both Lucas and Gerrard don’t have enough energy or mobility between them for the combination to work."

        it could be due to lack of fitness/sharpness, or not used to the tactics or just not in form. or a bit of a mixture of 3?

        however - i do think that once we have our full fit XI - with Johnson/Coutinho in the side and Suarez/Sturridge playing, it will push the opposition back further, and allow Gerrard/Lucas the chance to press a bit higher as a bit of knock on effect.

        to me though at present, when the two our played together, it feels like they both drop deeper and deeper to 'protect' themselves from being done for pace, but it allows the oppositon midfield to press higher and over run them a bit
        i own everton fans on the internet....that's what i do

        Comment


          #5
          By increasing the attacking options, this naturally reduces the defensive options. Realistically you can only be good at one and I'd rather score more than the opposition than concede less. It looks like BrenRod also favours this.

          Ideally we would swap one of the CM for a tough tackling, brick wall type of player- possibly gerrard making way, who would be used in rotation with Coutinho and the strikers
          Originally posted by fah-q
          Didn't someone once see Philip Schofield ****ting into a crisp packet?

          Comment


            #6
            Disagree with the premise of the article. Our CM and CB's are not static and never moving around when going in to attack, and our AMC moves back as well. Of course he wouldn't have an article if he showed that, but in strikes me as strange showing us attacking with 4-5 people sat just outside our own area - it just doesn't happen. We push up and close the area the midfield have to cover already, or we fall back closing the gap as well with AM. When have both Lucas and Gerrard been place on our own half during attacking play? And when have our CB's ever been placed that far back as opposed to the Rafa era? They havn't, and I think the article is quite poor for showing it that way.

            It's really quite a strange way to write an article IMO.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by meffin View Post
              By increasing the attacking options, this naturally reduces the defensive options. Realistically you can only be good at one and I'd rather score more than the opposition than concede less. It looks like BrenRod also favours this.

              Ideally we would swap one of the CM for a tough tackling, brick wall type of player- possibly gerrard making way, who would be used in rotation with Coutinho and the strikers
              this has done well for manure over the years. all out attack, with a bit of defence. our failing was too many draws, turn maybe half of them into wins would be a massive jump up the table for us.
              removing all the weak links makes us stronger

              too many gutless players, no beef or desire. pussies everywhere... sack them all.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Darkon View Post
                Disagree with the premise of the article. Our CM and CB's are not static and never moving around when going in to attack, and our AMC moves back as well. Of course he wouldn't have an article if he showed that, but in strikes me as strange showing us attacking with 4-5 people sat just outside our own area - it just doesn't happen. We push up and close the area the midfield have to cover already, or we fall back closing the gap as well with AM. When have both Lucas and Gerrard been place on our own half during attacking play? And when have our CB's ever been placed that far back as opposed to the Rafa era? They havn't, and I think the article is quite poor for showing it that way.

                It's really quite a strange way to write an article IMO.
                It's bollocks designed to show Rafa was a wonderful attack minded manager and Brendan is a defensive minded inferior manager. Completely and utterly false.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Poor article tbh but it's written with an agenda.

                  We've had a brilliant start to the season, scored the 3rd most league goals so far and only Southampton and Chelsea have conceded less.

                  We'll also improve through the season as well especially when we have a fully fit first team back.

                  Always seems to be those willing to criticise whatever the results

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Alway was alway will be

                    I know it's not been discussed yet, but those formation pictures aren't by Arn are they?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The formation pictures aren't made by me.

                      The article isn't bollox. How many times do our central defenders make attacking runs this season? It happened very often Rodgers first few months as our manager. Now it more or less never happen.

                      Rodgers himself said that two attacking players shouldn't track back all time because the opponent would then need to have more players covering them.

                      We do have a big gap between our strikers and our central midfield. That isn't bollox. We have ourself moaned that it is a problem and we need a more physical CM but now when an article states that(the gap thing) then suddenly that isn't a problem

                      We have ourself moaned that we don't play as a unit and now when an article states that we don't, then suddenly we play as a unit

                      I really can't say that we scored that many goals. 11 in seven games isn't that much. Second highers scorers in the league but not even 1.5 goals a game still isn't that much.

                      It is our defense that earned us many points this season and not the attack. You could say the same about teams like Chelsea, Southampton and Tottenham.

                      It is the defense that earn points this season in the league. The attacking play have been worse than usual.

                      You don't see that many high scoring games this season so far. If you score two goals then you can almost be sure that you will get three points.

                      I think that is because many of the teams have new managers and they build from the back. Rodgers is doing that now for example.
                      Stop the cyberhate


                      from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

                      Susan Black

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Another important point is that this is only the second time that Rodgers build up his own system and tactics. It takes time to build a new tactic and a new system.

                        The first time was at Reading. He didn't build up the system at Swansea. He took over after Martinez that more or less play the same system and tactic.

                        We build from the back and we win games because of that.

                        Rodgers will continue to build his system and tactics and we will be better and better because of that but it takes time.

                        In a year or two we will probably play as a unit. It took Rafa almost two seasons to get us playing the way he want, as a unit.
                        Stop the cyberhate


                        from now on I will skip talking about our finances. That is a promise and will save myself from looking like a

                        Susan Black

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The midfield needs to be tighter I don't think there is much argument there but let's give some perspective.

                          Table if we started in Jan, think this shows some good progress and most importantly Rodgers has stated he isn't satisfied with the performances; sometimes there is over analysis when we should be enjoying our form which let's be honest is the best since the 08/09 season by a country mile.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by rcasemore View Post
                            The midfield needs to be tighter I don't think there is much argument there but let's give some perspective.

                            Table if we started in Jan, think this shows some good progress and most importantly Rodgers has stated he isn't satisfied with the performances; sometimes there is over analysis when we should be enjoying our form which let's be honest is the best since the 08/09 season by a country mile.

                            That is excellent. All I'd say is we are very good at playing when the pressure's off - 2nd half of last season was largely pressure free. Different matter since August and it's been great, yet we've been nowhere near our best. Great progress but it starts to get serious after the international break.
                            Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I agree.

                              I think we've clearly been progressing since the new year under BR but we can't get carried away, still lots of work and improvement that can be made and there is a lot of potential in this squad, more so than for quite some time but we need to continue as we have, picking up wins and improving.

                              The pleasing thing is that Rodgers isn't resting on his laurels and wants and expects more

                              Comment

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