Title Race

[Chazza]

Even stranger that it is an opinion piece by Adrian Durham

[Chris]

Strange article by the DM......

Very strange. Like us winning a trophy is any sort of "justice". Would rather he used the column to hammer scum like Bettison and co, that would be much better but his heart is in the right place I suppose, well I hope so anyway and it's not just a "get hits" article which is what 99.9% of his stuff is about.

[The_weatherman]

I was thinking about the increase in Champions Leage revenue with the new deal.

IMO we have to go all out this january, spend from our summer budget and get in players like Pastore or Konoplenko(sp?), attacking players who can make a difference, if we don't manage to get the fourth spot the gap will widen again and I don't think we can bridge that soon.

So I think we should forget players like Hughes for the moment and concentrate on improving the team this season, as early as january.

[RichC]

I think we could do with two players one a goal scoring midfielder, we seem to be lacking in this department and competition for Lucas.

The side is pretty much there but with a little more quality in the Jan window we should be in a great position to make the top 4

[Alex]

I worry though as the squad is really lacking past the top 14/15 players. Its filled with prospects or players who have been brought in and shown nothing yet. (Borini, Aspas, Allen)

If we made the Champions league it could do more harm than good at the moment. We'd have to seriously invest more. Past the Midfield issue I think we are light up front for a team that could next season be playing 60 games. We have seen what the Europa League is doing to Spurs, and I fear that'll be us.

Nice problem to have mind.

[RichC]

I agree to an extent however if we make the CL I am sure we'd be investing in the side to allow us to compete in that competition, I think Spurs is slightly different in that it's the Europa League and they do have a large enough squad to deal with the pressures but the players they've brought in this summer, on the whole haven't quite jelled yet.

For me I'd want to see a LB alternative as well as a striker to complement the 2 midfielders. I mentioned but I think these 2 positions could wait until the Summer

[The_weatherman]

I worry though as the squad is really lacking past the top 14/15 players. Its filled with prospects or players who have been brought in and shown nothing yet. (Borini, Aspas, Allen)

If we made the Champions league it could do more harm than good at the moment. We'd have to seriously invest more. Past the Midfield issue I think we are light up front for a team that could next season be playing 60 games. We have seen what the Europa League is doing to Spurs, and I fear that'll be us.

Nice problem to have mind.

I know what your're saying but if we don't make the top four I'm afraid the gap will only widen more, the top four will have even more spending power so it's vital we get there IMO.

[Mostar]

We have a very realistic chance of 4th and I think that we should actually be looking for a top 3 finish. If, and it is a big if, Man City keep faltering (and thats going to depend on how much constant rotating they do) and Chelsea keep insisting on relying on old hasbeen strikers then there is no reason why we can not finish above them too.

We have to wait and see where we will be in early January before we have any decent indication how this season is developing for us.

We are doing well but the fact is that we had much easier schedule than other top teams. We are going into a difficult part of the season with 4 very tough away games over the next 8 games stretch it will be interesting to see where we'll end up a the mid season point.

I know you mentioned City as the team not doing well atm but interestingly enough but looking at the same fixtures they played this year vs last year they are actually +6 points (we are +4), which is not clearly captured in the team standings at the moment.

[RedReet]

Are Jose Mourinho and David Moyes right? Does the Premier League table REALLY lie?

21 Nov 2013 07:30

Chief football writer Martin Lipton does his sums in an effort to prove whether that old football cliche is true or is just a convenient excuse
Lies, all lies: The Special One doesn't always trust the league table Lies, all lies: The Special One doesn't always trust the league table
Clive Rose

The table, we are always told, does not lie. Except, of course, that it does.

Not in May. Then it is unarguable, definitive. Probably not by the end of January, either.

But in November, perhaps, it does. When you have only played 11 games, being top of the pile might be great for confidence, yet it does not tell the full story.

Ask David Moyes, whose conviction that the fixtures computer spewed out a set of games designed to make his task even harder than it would have been in merely replacing Sir Alex Ferguson has only been strengthened by more recent results.

Listen to Jose Mourinho, too. He has been consistent in his argument that Chelsea have done better than the table suggests, especially in comparison to the league leaders.

“Some teams have been helped by the fixtures,” said the Blues boss. “But some have had it more difficult than others. Manchester United had it the most difficult. Then us. Some other teams, not so much. I didn’t speak about it and David did; he was complaining about United’s fixtures. And he’s right, he’s right.

“Yes, I used to say you have to play 19 games at home and 19 away and it doesn’t matter about the fixtures. But you go to compare Arsenal fixtures with our fixtures, with Man United fixtures – it’s incomparable.”

Actually, Jose, all fixtures ARE comparable. It’s about what you compare them with. And there, at least, Mourinho’s argument could be said to fall down.

Yes, if you look at the matches in isolation, with his side having travelled, already, to Old *Trafford, Goodison and White Hart Lane, they have had it tough.

But those were all matches Chelsea, under Roberto Di Matteo and then Rafa Benitez, WON last season. This term, Chelsea have eked out just two points from them.

In five away games, they have five points. Last season those same matches earned 12 points.

In fact, if you look at the table of direct comparison results – with Cardiff, Hull and Crystal Palace replacing Wigan, Reading and QPR – you are faced by an unexpected “relegation zone”. As Mourinho – and others – have pointed out, Arsenal have taken advantage of a relatively soft start to stand top of the Premier League at this stage.

Arsenal's Santi Cazorla celebrates scoring their first goal Top of the league... but Arsenal are worse off than last season
Reuters

But Arsene Wenger’s side won their first nine corresponding games last time round. Match for match, they are actually three points worse off than 2012-13.

United, by this measure, have started as badly as Moyes’ critics make out, despite their current five-match unbeaten league run. Still eight points worse off.

Of course, a side that won the league by 11 points has more of a margin of error than others. But doubts swiftly creep into any dressing room, are passed on to fans. You could sense the apprehension, feel the relief, when they held on to that precious advantage against Arsenal.

At the other end of the ‘comparison table’ are Southampton, team of the season so far. When Mauricio Pochettino spoke of his desire to target a top four place, many laughed.

Yet Saints are a staggering 14 points better off than over the same matches last term.

Villa’s second place owes much to that 8-0 humiliation at Chelsea being consigned to history while those back-to-back wins over the Blues and Spurs see Newcastle in third, with Liverpool taking the final ‘Champions League’ spot.

All could change, of course. Southampton visit Arsenal on Saturday, Spurs suddenly cannot afford to lose at Manchester City, United are on a roll.

In the final analysis, it is about what you do this season, not compared to last term. But, perhaps, it puts a few things in perspective.



Alternative Premier League table

Position Pts GD

1 Southampton +14 +15

2 Aston Villa +8 +19

3 Newcastle +6 +9

4 Liverpool +4 +2

5 Man City +3 +11

6 Hull* +3 +1

7 Tottenham +2 -1

8 Everton +1 -1

9 Fulham 0 -4

10 Norwich 0 -9

11 Stoke -1 0

12 Cardiff* -1 -5

13 WBA -2 +1

14 Arsenal -3 0

15 West Ham -3 0

16 Sunderland -3 -10

17 Swansea -4 -7

18 Chelsea -5 -10

19 C Palace* -7 -8

20 Man Utd -8 -6

Each team has their 11-game record compared to their results against the same teams in the corresponding fixtures last season.

*Cardiff, Hull and Crystal Palace replace Wigan, Reading and QPR respectively

[Fosterbloke]

[QUOTE=Mostar;2778222]

We are doing well but the fact is that we had much easier schedule than other top /QUOTE]

I disagree based on the results those 'easy' teams have produced against the top teams.

[ChesterDave]

I'm not buying this malarky about us having had an easier start. By my reckoning the teams in the top 8 have played against each other 3 times each apart from the mancs who have played 5. All the top 8 bar them therefore have 4 games against top 8 opponents in their next 7 league games. The 3 we have played make up 3 of the highest 4 positions excluding us in second.

The teams you might expect to be above us are not behind because they have had tough games against each other. They are behind because they have dropped points against garbage opponents

[wavydavy]

I really think we can and should get 12 or 13 points from the 15 available pre Christmas. That would give us around 36 points as we pass halfway and the two biggies vs Chelsea and City would almost be freebies.When you look at everyone else's upcoming fixtures it's entirely possible for us to be top at Christmas. Very tough upcoming fixtures for Everton,Soton etc coming up could see a few tailed off in the New Year. Things are looking good as it stands.

[ChesterDave]

Man City V Tottenham
Tottenham V Man Utd
Chelsea V Southampton
Man Utd V Everton
Southampton V Man City
Arsenal V Everton

All of those fixtures by 8 December

[Patricks_Berger]

Man City V Tottenham
Tottenham V Man Utd
Chelsea V Southampton
Man Utd V Everton
Southampton V Man City
Arsenal V Everton

All of those fixtures by 8 December

In which time we play Hull, Norwich & West Ham. 9 points for us would be massive. Take the pressure off slightly going into the tricky Christmas / New Year period.

[Shaggy]

These next three games are ****ing massive. 9 points is essential...if we manage it it'll tell us a lot about our character. An absolute guarantee in years gone by that we wouldn't have taken 9 from these three.