Dejan Lovren

[Lecter]

Agree with that and I've said it in another thread a few months earlier something along those lines. The goalkeeper is the issue for me. Get a more commanding one, and the defence will sort itself out.

Goalkeeper is an issue but so are both our centrehalves and our holding midfielder

Essentially those four players in a diamond are the lynchpins of your defensive system

We have a goalkeeper who is indecisive and not commanding
1 centrehalf who is error prone and subject to lapses of concentration and cant organise
1 centrehalf who is positionally terrible and fails to organise either
1 holding midfielder who isnt great positionally and whose legs are going / gone

I think replacing any one of them improves things slightly but I would guess that the improvement would be minimal because it wouldnt magically waive a wand at the failings the other players have

My preference would be to get a commanding centrehalf in who organises well because he could dictate to others where they should be (see how Carragher improved us the other year when he returned to the team)

However as I have mentioned fidning a good centrehalf that fits the bill is difficult to say the least

[Lecter]

Lovren to me has shown none of the supposed qualities we bought him for

[red g]

Lovren to me has shown none of the supposed qualities we bought him for

and admitted he didnt have them at Southampton either

[Lecter]

and admitted he didnt have them at Southampton either

Never watched him at Southampton so cant comment but I've not been at all impressed with him at Liverpool

Its the basics that he cant do and that for me is a worry

[Fredo]

The penalty conceded on Saturday wasn't Lovren's fault, so I'm not sure why he's been subjected to so much criticism. He's made a few mistakes, but he's not been the liability that is being aimed at him. The mistake for the penalty was made by Manquillo losing the ball when the team was setting out to attack. Our defenders needed to adjust quickly to Berahino's direct thrust.

He does look rash and making the wrong decisions at times, but it looks to be something that is being taught on the training pitch (to get close to players) rather than something which should be attributed as a flaw to Lovren. We haven't looked good as a team defensively, and that is more of an issue rather than an individual one. For example, our positioning when playing the offside trap is very erratic. Two defenders normally read the play correctly while the other two are not reacting. There is definitely an issue with lack of practice in defensive situations IMO. Rodgers do seem to favour talking to the players individually a lot, but I'm not sure enough is done about drilling this into them on the training pitch as a collective whole.

[Lecter]

The penalty conceded on Saturday wasn't Lovren's fault, so I'm not sure why he's been subjected to so much criticism. He's made a few mistakes, but he's not been the liability that is being aimed at him. The mistake for the penalty was made by Manquillo losing the ball when the team was setting out to attack. Our defenders needed to adjust quickly to Berahino's direct thrust.

He does look rash and making the wrong decisions at times, but it looks to be something that is being taught on the training pitch (to get close to players) rather than something which should be attributed as a flaw to Lovren. We haven't looked good as a team defensively, and that is more of an issue rather than an individual one. For example, our positioning when playing the offside trap is very erratic. Two defenders normally read the play correctly while the other two are not reacting. There is definitely an issue with lack of practice in defensive situations IMO. Rodgers do seem to favour talking to the players individually a lot, but I'm not sure enough is done about drilling this into them on the training pitch as a collective whole.

Its the fundamentals he falls down on like positional play (this is constant imo) and dare I say it not even being goal-side of opponents (which is ****ing criminal for a professional footballer)

The penalty was one of them for me, not sure I'd be too quick to point the finger

But the other stuff is basic defending and that to me is a major major worry

[Tee]

If Sakho had dropped even half the amount of costly clangers as Lovren has already there'd be some Reds starting online petitions demanding the Frenchman's sacking.

Have to say I was suckered in by Lovrens commanding debut. He looked unbelievably good v Dortmund. Clearly he is not quite as good as I thought and whilst he is not **** he has too many question marks around him and should be taken out of the firing line IMO.

In fact I would be tempted to start with Skrtel and Kolo!

[captainfog]

Kolo hahahaha!

Amazing how much better players get when they are out of the team!

[captainfog]

WTF is Lovren doing going to ground when committing the foul for the pen. Absolutely has to share some of the blame. He needs to stay on his feet more and be less rash in the challenge.

[Tee]

Kolo hahahaha!

Amazing how much better players get when they are out of the team!

Amazing how **** some become when they are in the team!

[danperkins]

Acting as devil's advocate, Skrtel does the simple things right like heading the ball clear and not allowing it to bounce first. And being able to head properly. Skrtel is also the only proven choice that can score from set pieces. Obviously prone to ridiculously expensive blunders as the other two but Rodgers has got Hobson's choice really.

Sakho tends to make basic mistakes that lead to loss of possession or a needless corner. All of which may come to nothing so don't get recorded in the stats (or people's memories). But those mistakes build up and give the opposition some sort of upper hand when they don't deserve to have one and suddenly we're looking under the cosh again for no reason.

Right now Lovren looks absolute sh*te. The worst of the lot. Unfortunately Skrtel looks the best of the lot. So why not play him with Sakho? 'Cos we've spent £20m on a defender we have to hope sorts his sh*t out soon.

[Mark79]

Because I was responding to a specific point. But yeah if you want to go back to last season then Sakho was just dodge as Lovren is this season. Our defensive record with him in the side was terrible.

You said Sakho had all the same flaws as Lovren. Then you responded to the point that he's not made as many errors for us so far by saying it's because he's not had as many opportunities to do so. But he plainly has, and more.

The fact most of Sakho's games were last season doesn't matter. We're comparing how prone both players have been to making mistakes for Liverpool.

I'm not completely sold yet on Sakho either if I'm honest, but I don't think his overall form has been half as bad as Lovren's so far.

[captainfog]

You said Sakho had all the same flaws as Lovren. Then you responded to the point that he's not made as many errors for us so far by saying it's because he's not had as many opportunities to do so. But he plainly has, and more.

The fact most of Sakho's games were last season doesn't matter. We're comparing how prone both players have been to making mistakes for Liverpool.

I'm not completely sold yet on Sakho either if I'm honest, but I don't think his overall form has been half as bad as Lovren's so far.

Jesus ****ing Christ. Yes, I know, I thought we were discussing performances this season. In which case Sakho has hardly played.

For what it's worth I think all 4 of our centre backs and both goalkeepers are ****. Should have kept Agger.

[G]

Sakho played in a defence consisting of both Skrtel and Toure when he first went into the team, not a great set up to be judged on. He also played some games at left back. He's never had a chance to play in a settled defence with the same defensive partner so I still don't think its fair to judge him. Yeah he's looked ropey at times but they all have. The Lovren is getting that chance this season, defence hasn't changed much in the league so we can judge him fairly in a few more months if the defense stays the same.

[BobTheCharmer]

Sakho hasn't had the opportunity to make as many errors as Lovren. When he has played though I haven't been impressed. He can ping a pass, but he's defensively suspect in all the same ways Lovren has been.

I'd happily play sakho in goal though. For all his defensive faults he's still probably a better keeper than Mignolet.

****ing hell.