Dejan Lovren

[frank the tank]

Anyway, on Lovren. He is actually a talented football player. He fits the mould of a ball playing centre back. His passing will never be perfect as he is expected to do the odd Hollywood ball to turn the opposition around and take pressure off the defence. Stevie is one of the best long passers of the ball around, but even he's hit & miss with them. So I imagine Dejan will frequently **** up the long ball.

Next question will be why doesn't he just play it short. You can't always do that because if you do you're predictable.

I agree that he is talented with a football at his feet........that is a luxury in a centre back though - i meanthere is no point in being a good passer if you can't judge a ball into the box......or are always out of position!!

also, if his instructions are to play a 10 yard ball to Gerrard anyway, then there is no point in having a guy who can play 50 yard balls.

[captainfog]

Good at passing?! Have we been watching the same player? Ha!

[DannyMan2006]

I agree that he is talented with a football at his feet........that is a luxury in a centre back though - i meanthere is no point in being a good passer if you can't judge a ball into the box......or are always out of position!!

also, if his instructions are to play a 10 yard ball to Gerrard anyway, then there is no point in having a guy who can play 50 yard balls.

When they can pass to Gerrard they do. But teams have been marking him out the game this season.

Foggy - he's been off form, give him time. Whether or not he deserves it - that's up to the manager.

And sadly to reply to another, don't think I ever saw Lovren as a RCB - That was more in hope as we heard he'd played there for Lyon

[peekay]

I had no intention of posting a blog today. My plan was to tweet a couple of comments and statistics about the Premier League season so far and discuss them with anyone and everyone interested in a bit more from football analysis than, for example, Robbie Savage screaming “I want to see more desire from Balotelli”.

The trouble was, what I wanted to say on twitter was going to take about ten tweets to type, and considering I pay an annual fee to keep the rights to this site which I hardly ever use – because I never really wanted a blog in the first place – I might as well put it on here instead.

My original train of thought this morning was something along the lines of: If public perception is that Dejan Lovren was good for Lyon and good for Southampton, but is struggling at Liverpool, why is that? And is it just a coincidence that Southampton continue to have a great defensive record after he’s left, while a string of centre-backs have struggled at Liverpool in recent years, Lovren just being the most recent?

Generally, I think analysing attacking play is much easier than defensive play, both using your eyes and through various statistics and metrics. Although football is a team game at all times, there’s more individual creative freedom in attacking play, and that makes the contribution of the individual that bit easier to assess. With defending, although individual skill and individual mistakes are obviously still vital, proportionately you defend more as a unit, and as part of a defensive system and philosophy, and that, naturally, muddies the waters to some extent when attempting to assess an individual defensive performance.

We’re 11 games into the Premier League season. Southampton have conceded just five goals, less than half the total of any other team. True, their average strength of opponent is a bit below average at the moment (they have Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd to come in their next four games) but having sold three defenders for somewhere around £65m over the summer, it remains an incredible achievement.

So what’s the secret to their success? Any team that has only conceded five goals in eleven games must have a goalkeeper and two centre-backs playing at an extremely high level, surely? Well, not necessarily. That’s not to say Forster, Fonte and Alderweireld aren’t playing well – they are – just that there is a lot more to it.

To illustrate my point, the following is a table of the players who have made the most tackles in the Premier League this season:

PREMIER LEAGUE 2014-15 MOST TACKLES (to 11th Nov)

tackles

Of the six most prolific tacklers in the Premier League this season, three play for Southampton. That’s pretty incredible, but what’s striking is the positions they play in. No centre-backs, but one full-back and two midfielders. That suggests that these three players aren’t making a huge proportion of those tackles inside their own box. It tells me Southampton are breaking up a lot of opposition attacks before they get near the penalty box – probably more than any other team. While not wanting to downplay the performances of Forster, Fonte and Alderweireld, it seems pretty fair to conclude that large part of Southampton conceding so few goals is their work as a unit higher up the pitch, and the contribution these three players are making in protecting their goalkeeper and centre-backs, meaning the pressure on them, in positions from which the majority of goals are scored, is minimal.

The next table shows the most prolific defenders in terms of making defensive clearances this season:

PREMIER LEAGUE 2014-15 MOST DEFENSIVE CLEARANCES MADE (to 11th Nov)

clearance

The first thing that strikes me here is that five of the seven play for teams that weren’t expected to do very well this season. West Ham have surprised pretty much all of us with the way they’ve started the season, and James Collins’ contribution to that probably deserves a bit more credit than it is receiving due to the majority of the focus being on the improved attacking performances there.

Intuitively, you’d expect players at clubs near the bottom of the league to be prominent on this list, because the ball is going to reach their penalty box more often, giving them more opportunities to clear the ball. So, while acknowledging West Ham being a better team than most expected this season, those five players being on the list is no major surprise.

The other two players in the top seven clearance makers this season? Both of Liverpool’s central defenders.

While I have no wish to tell the whole world they’re completely wrong about Lovren this season (he’d probably tell you himself he hasn’t played as well as he would like to have) I do believe this raises some food for thought.

These two Liverpool players who, we’re told, aren’t playing very well this season, are clearing the ball more often than virtually any other defender in the league. From this we can conclude the ball is probably getting into areas where Skrtel and Lovren need to make clearances far more often than is happening at other clubs wishing to finish in the top few league positions.

Liverpool have no players on the top tacklers list (Jordan Henderson at 19th is their highest). They’re not cutting out many opposition attacks higher up the pitch. Southampton’s midfield and full-backs are taking the pressure off their centre-backs. Liverpool’s midfield and full-backs are doing completely the opposite. Liverpool’s style of play, with more attacking, creative players across their midfield, is putting their centre-backs under far more pressure than Southampton do.

So, we know Skrtel and Lovren make more clearances than any other defenders at top clubs. Every time they make one it receives little or no praise, because that’s what they’re expected to do. But the more times you’re in that situation the more inevitable it is that, eventually, you’ll make a mistake. And when that mistake does arrive it gets highlighted, with no mention of the eight or ten times previously they made the clearance.

It seems fair to me to conclude that the difference between Southampton and Liverpool in the defensive department is like chalk and cheese. Dejan Lovren has left a club who excelled in ensuring the pressure he was put under was minimised and joined one who are either unwilling or unable to do that.

Just perhaps that helps us understand a) why Lovren is taking time to settle in at Liverpool and is, according to pretty much everyone, struggling a bit at the moment, and b) why it may not be possible for any centre-back, no matter how good, to truly look brilliant unless Liverpool make changes to the way those in front of them operate.

http://gemsandrhinestones.com/

[Chazza]

Didn't know you were a Wolves fan.

[peekay]

Didn't know you were a Wolves fan.

Need to add, that blog is not mine.

[Saveloy]

Didn't know you were a Wolves fan.

I got to the second paragraph and thought, he pays an annual fee to this site ?

Have the ****ers established a platinum club on the sly?

[RichC]

I got to the second paragraph and thought, he pays an annual fee to this site ?

Have the ****ers established a platinum club on the sly?

The platinum club is invitation only Mr Loy

[Saveloy]

The platinum club is invitation only Mr Loy

oh




ok

[Assassin]

giggles

[-V-]

I had no intention of posting a blog today. My plan was to tweet a couple of comments and statistics about the Premier League season so far and discuss them with anyone and everyone interested in a bit more from football analysis than, for example, Robbie Savage screaming “I want to see more desire from Balotelli”.

The trouble was, what I wanted to say on twitter was going to take about ten tweets to type, and considering I pay an annual fee to keep the rights to this site which I hardly ever use – because I never really wanted a blog in the first place – I might as well put it on here instead.

My original train of thought this morning was something along the lines of: If public perception is that Dejan Lovren was good for Lyon and good for Southampton, but is struggling at Liverpool, why is that? And is it just a coincidence that Southampton continue to have a great defensive record after he’s left, while a string of centre-backs have struggled at Liverpool in recent years, Lovren just being the most recent?

Generally, I think analysing attacking play is much easier than defensive play, both using your eyes and through various statistics and metrics. Although football is a team game at all times, there’s more individual creative freedom in attacking play, and that makes the contribution of the individual that bit easier to assess. With defending, although individual skill and individual mistakes are obviously still vital, proportionately you defend more as a unit, and as part of a defensive system and philosophy, and that, naturally, muddies the waters to some extent when attempting to assess an individual defensive performance.

We’re 11 games into the Premier League season. Southampton have conceded just five goals, less than half the total of any other team. True, their average strength of opponent is a bit below average at the moment (they have Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd to come in their next four games) but having sold three defenders for somewhere around £65m over the summer, it remains an incredible achievement.

So what’s the secret to their success? Any team that has only conceded five goals in eleven games must have a goalkeeper and two centre-backs playing at an extremely high level, surely? Well, not necessarily. That’s not to say Forster, Fonte and Alderweireld aren’t playing well – they are – just that there is a lot more to it.

To illustrate my point, the following is a table of the players who have made the most tackles in the Premier League this season:

PREMIER LEAGUE 2014-15 MOST TACKLES (to 11th Nov)

tackles

Of the six most prolific tacklers in the Premier League this season, three play for Southampton. That’s pretty incredible, but what’s striking is the positions they play in. No centre-backs, but one full-back and two midfielders. That suggests that these three players aren’t making a huge proportion of those tackles inside their own box. It tells me Southampton are breaking up a lot of opposition attacks before they get near the penalty box – probably more than any other team. While not wanting to downplay the performances of Forster, Fonte and Alderweireld, it seems pretty fair to conclude that large part of Southampton conceding so few goals is their work as a unit higher up the pitch, and the contribution these three players are making in protecting their goalkeeper and centre-backs, meaning the pressure on them, in positions from which the majority of goals are scored, is minimal.

The next table shows the most prolific defenders in terms of making defensive clearances this season:

PREMIER LEAGUE 2014-15 MOST DEFENSIVE CLEARANCES MADE (to 11th Nov)

clearance

The first thing that strikes me here is that five of the seven play for teams that weren’t expected to do very well this season. West Ham have surprised pretty much all of us with the way they’ve started the season, and James Collins’ contribution to that probably deserves a bit more credit than it is receiving due to the majority of the focus being on the improved attacking performances there.

Intuitively, you’d expect players at clubs near the bottom of the league to be prominent on this list, because the ball is going to reach their penalty box more often, giving them more opportunities to clear the ball. So, while acknowledging West Ham being a better team than most expected this season, those five players being on the list is no major surprise.

The other two players in the top seven clearance makers this season? Both of Liverpool’s central defenders.

While I have no wish to tell the whole world they’re completely wrong about Lovren this season (he’d probably tell you himself he hasn’t played as well as he would like to have) I do believe this raises some food for thought.

These two Liverpool players who, we’re told, aren’t playing very well this season, are clearing the ball more often than virtually any other defender in the league. From this we can conclude the ball is probably getting into areas where Skrtel and Lovren need to make clearances far more often than is happening at other clubs wishing to finish in the top few league positions.

Liverpool have no players on the top tacklers list (Jordan Henderson at 19th is their highest). They’re not cutting out many opposition attacks higher up the pitch. Southampton’s midfield and full-backs are taking the pressure off their centre-backs. Liverpool’s midfield and full-backs are doing completely the opposite. Liverpool’s style of play, with more attacking, creative players across their midfield, is putting their centre-backs under far more pressure than Southampton do.

So, we know Skrtel and Lovren make more clearances than any other defenders at top clubs. Every time they make one it receives little or no praise, because that’s what they’re expected to do. But the more times you’re in that situation the more inevitable it is that, eventually, you’ll make a mistake. And when that mistake does arrive it gets highlighted, with no mention of the eight or ten times previously they made the clearance.

It seems fair to me to conclude that the difference between Southampton and Liverpool in the defensive department is like chalk and cheese. Dejan Lovren has left a club who excelled in ensuring the pressure he was put under was minimised and joined one who are either unwilling or unable to do that.

Just perhaps that helps us understand a) why Lovren is taking time to settle in at Liverpool and is, according to pretty much everyone, struggling a bit at the moment, and b) why it may not be possible for any centre-back, no matter how good, to truly look brilliant unless Liverpool make changes to the way those in front of them operate.

http://gemsandrhinestones.com/

So basically Morgan Scheneiderlan and Victor Wanyama are a brilliant defensive midfield partnership while we need to find a DM partner for Emre Can

[Zapater]

Lovren is decent with his left foot, same as Lallana.

On Glen, if you are a winger or full back it is a good idea to use your weaker foot every once in a while. Even if the effectiveness of it isn't that great, it means the opposing player can't just box off your stronger foot.

Not every player is as talented as Arjen Robben at making space for their stronger foot, so they have to rely on a bit of gamesmanship. Showing you're willing to use the weaker foot is one such way.

I know exactly why Johnson does it. It makes perfect sense cutting in with your foot which is closest to their goal on the inside, but he does it every time it's so predictable and proven to be ineffective. It's lead to a handful of goals during his years here and it becomes tedious. It's hardly like he goes on the outside and whips in a ball with his right etc. I'm all for players being two footed (Riise and now Moreno drive me a bit mad with their frustrating one footedness), I was more making reference to using their stronger foot in situations which would favour them.

[MrMichael]

I know exactly why Johnson does it. It makes perfect sense cutting in with your foot which is closest to their goal on the inside, but he does it every time it's so predictable and proven to be ineffective. It's lead to a handful of goals during his years here and it becomes tedious. It's hardly like he goes on the outside and whips in a ball with his right etc. I'm all for players being two footed (Riise and now Moreno drive me a bit mad with their frustrating one footedness), I was more making reference to using their stronger foot in situations which would favour them.

Absolutely

[frank the tank]

So basically Morgan Scheneiderlan and Victor Wanyama are a brilliant defensive midfield partnership while we need to find a DM partner for Emre Can

that was the same conclusion i came to as well.....****in hell i hope that blogger dude didn't give up the day job...... total snoozefest trying to get through that.....

[meffin]

So basically Morgan Scheneiderlan and Victor Wanyama are a brilliant defensive midfield partnership while we need to find a DM partner for Emre Can

I'd take either of them. Give them Lambert and Lovren back and take Scheneiderlan. Sounds about fair.