Dejan Lovren

[RichC]

It's something Skrtel has really improved upon over the past 10 or so games so it is certainly doable. You also have to remember he's not played for us for quite some time, all of the back 3 in the first half looked a little lost but the conditions and changes in the back line will have contributed to that.

[RedRum]

Lovren and lallana.....we'd take our money back in a heartbeat if we had the chance. Even 65% of what we paid.

The rest of the signings - even Mario - then im not so sure....

The new Downing, he will be shifted to Allardyce and West Ham so you once said

[Lecter]

It's something Skrtel has really improved upon over the past 10 or so games so it is certainly doable. You also have to remember he's not played for us for quite some time, all of the back 3 in the first half looked a little lost but the conditions and changes in the back line will have contributed to that.

The thing with Skrtel is I am not sure how much of his positional play is down to him or Can & Sakho cajoling him into position

Yesterday a couple of times Skrtel was out positionally or went for things he shouldnt have

He hasnt been doing this recently and I think him being central and having Can & Sakho either side makes it hard for him to step too far out of position

In other words being the central man in the back 3 suits Skrtel and it might well suit Lovren if he could play that position

[captainfog]

Where the hell is ****tles for their second penalty shout? Charging towards a ball that was Can's to defend, that's where.

[Lecter]

Where the hell is ****tles for their second penalty shout? Charging towards a ball that was Can's to defend, that's where.

That was one of the specific things I remembered

I doubt he would have done that if Sakho had been playing

[DannyMan2006]

A few weeks ago there was some posts on here claiming that it was the system change that made us look better and not that we also had a change in personnel along with the change in system

For me we have had a system change that has been complimented by the change in personnel that happened around that time

Injuries have forced us to bring back some of those players that were dropped at that time and although results have gone our way our performance levels have dropped, we also look a little more vulnerable

I was one of those at least who was thinking it, can't remember if I posted that on here. Whilst I agree that a certain degree of it can be put down to player changes, I do think that the majority of improvement is down to a change in the system.

Example is that Lucas was playing exceptionally well in the opinion of everyone. People dreaded Allen coming in to replace him, but he's not put a foot wrong and Lucas missing hasn't effected results at all. Then on Sunday we lost Sakho who everyone says is our best defender, replaced him with someone who people say is Championship standard, and we restricted So'ton to barely a shot on goal.

We have looked slightly more ropey of late, but it's hard to say the exact reason. It could be because we are facing a higher standard of opposition or it could be because the games are piling up and we are being effected in that regards. Or it could just be because the standard of player has dropped. Maybe it's a collaboration of many different things.

[The_weatherman]

I was one of those at least who was thinking it, can't remember if I posted that on here. Whilst I agree that a certain degree of it can be put down to player changes, I do think that the majority of improvement is down to a change in the system.

Example is that Lucas was playing exceptionally well in the opinion of everyone. People dreaded Allen coming in to replace him, but he's not put a foot wrong and Lucas missing hasn't effected results at all. Then on Sunday we lost Sakho who everyone says is our best defender, replaced him with someone who people say is Championship standard, and we restricted So'ton to barely a shot on goal.

We have looked slightly more ropey of late, but it's hard to say the exact reason. It could be because we are facing a higher standard of opposition or it could be because the games are piling up and we are being effected in that regards. Or it could just be because the standard of player has dropped. Maybe it's a collaboration of many different things.

I still think Lucas is so important to the team, not only the defending aspect but his ability to facilitate the ball from defense and forward. He is so good at moving the ball on under pressure and his turns very quickly, something Allen and Gerrard are not quite as good at, the former is quicker at it though.

IMO it's both the player changes and the system changes. I will always maintain that if we had played Lucas and Sakho from the start we'd have fared better than with Gerrard and Lovren. We'd not have reached this level though, that's where the formation comes in.

I do appreciate the difficulties facing Rodgers regarding Gerrard though, but I feel it was poorly handled. But Rodgers has totally restored my faith in him and I think he'll be better for this experience.

[Gazzla]

I don't see any hope at all with Lovren, he's one of the worst central defenders I can remember playing for us in recent memory. Positionally he is atrocious and also has no awareness of anything around him, jumps needlessly into challenges he won't get anywhere near, he has zero pace, seems incapable of winning a defensive header and I've given up hoping he's going to pass the ball to a teammate.

Forget the formation change, even going back to Madrid away, prior to that our defence led by Lovren was a disaster, Lovren dropped Toure comes in and the difference was like night and day, we actually looked a solid defensive unit without the panic inducing presence of Lovren.

Just get rid

[The_weatherman]

He seems a total waste doesn't he? I was hoping he could turn it around. Didn't we scout him last year?

[captainfog]

We were defensively solid against Besiktas last week, but we were all over the shop against Southampton and got away with it, it's crazy to say anything else. Polar opposite defensive performances that thankfully had the same outcome. I'm hoping that was due to the weather or it being one of those days rather than the combined effect of Lovren and Allen starting.

[Lecter]

I was one of those at least who was thinking it, can't remember if I posted that on here. Whilst I agree that a certain degree of it can be put down to player changes, I do think that the majority of improvement is down to a change in the system.

Example is that Lucas was playing exceptionally well in the opinion of everyone. People dreaded Allen coming in to replace him, but he's not put a foot wrong and Lucas missing hasn't effected results at all. Then on Sunday we lost Sakho who everyone says is our best defender, replaced him with someone who people say is Championship standard, and we restricted So'ton to barely a shot on goal.

We have looked slightly more ropey of late, but it's hard to say the exact reason. It could be because we are facing a higher standard of opposition or it could be because the games are piling up and we are being effected in that regards. Or it could just be because the standard of player has dropped. Maybe it's a collaboration of many different things.

Hmm I'm not sure I would be in the "Allen has not put a foot wrong" camp

Personally I think its both the system change and the players, the drop off in performance level in last few games is down to the players who have come in

Just my opinion

I also thought we got away with a lot against Southampton that on another day we wouldnt have been quite so fortunate. A lot of the problems Southampton caused us were from straight balls that have been gobbled up when Sakho has played

[Lecter]

I will always maintain that if we had played Lucas and Sakho from the start we'd have fared better than with Gerrard and Lovren. We'd not have reached this level though, that's where the formation comes in.

[danperkins]

I am not sure its that easy to improve positionally

A lot of it is intuitive

Lovren had a decent second half to be fair to him. Don't think he'll be here next season though.

[danperkins]

The thing with Skrtel is I am not sure how much of his positional play is down to him or Can & Sakho cajoling him into position

Yesterday a couple of times Skrtel was out positionally or went for things he shouldnt have

He hasnt been doing this recently and I think him being central and having Can & Sakho either side makes it hard for him to step too far out of position

In other words being the central man in the back 3 suits Skrtel and it might well suit Lovren if he could play that position

Skrtel hasn't been doing this recently because Lucas has been there covering our back line like a DM is suppose to & there is less need to vacate.

When Gerrard/Henderson were playing there & even when Allen/Henderson are playing there because they are not DM's & they have a tendency to be caught too high up the pitch. This has happened so many times & a big gap appears in front of the back line... teams really did exploit that at the start of the season. To combat this, both CB's in Skrtel & Lovren seemed to feel the need to vacate the CB areas to snuff out that danger.... and sure in turn this left big holes in our defence. It was all wrong.

I'm not a fan of Lovren but the amount of space we were conceding in front of the back line in the first 3 months of the season was ridiculous. Did Lovren, Skrtel & Mignolet absolutely no favours.

[Lecter]

Skrtel hasn't been doing this recently because Lucas has been there covering our back line like a DM is suppose to & there is less need to vacate.

When Gerrard/Henderson were playing there & even when Allen/Henderson are playing there because they are not DM's & they have a tendency to be caught too high up the pitch. This has happened so many times & a big gap appears in front of the back line... teams really did exploit that at the start of the season. To combat this, both CB's in Skrtel & Lovren seemed to feel the need to vacate the CB areas to snuff out that danger.... and sure in turn this left big holes in our defence. It was all wrong.

I'm not a fan of Lovren but the amount of space we were conceding in front of the back line in the first 3 months of the season was ridiculous. Did Lovren, Skrtel & Mignolet absolutely no favours.

Its not just that

Look back at the goals we conceded its as much about players being in the wrong areas as about there being a lack of protection

For me you can only blame the midfield so much

Early part of the season we were conceding goals from straight balls and we had central defenders being totally wrong positionally

Thats sod all to do with the midfield and protection imo

The change in formation and personnel has all helped

Sakho, Skrtel & Can dont get dragged out of position too often. They rarely step into wide areas and get caught (this was a constant problem with Lovren). When Sakho is playing Skrtel doesnt go for headers that are in other defenders area and when Lucas is there he doesnt step out

I thought Sunday was interesting to watch because its the first time in a few weeks we have been caused problems by long straight balls. Previous games we have just snuffed them out a great example of this was when we played West Ham and Sakho won so many straight balls that day I lost count