Are the current Liverpool team carrying Gerrard...?

[Mattshark]

I think Gerrard is part of defensive issue, he is not a good holding midfielder as he doesn't have the discipline or the decision making for the role imo. Sadly he has also started this season very poorly, even against Spurs we noted just how poor Gerrard was in that game. Last year we were so fluid going forward our defensive issues where not as much of a problem and we had Suarez defending from the front. This year we have not had that.

Chris, someone else would have taken the penalty. While it is an important goal and won us the game, it didn't come through Gerrard affecting play, which is the point being made.

[G]

I hope Gerrard gets a bloody rest Tuesday. We rest a 19 year and a 34 year old plays every second :rahs:. Gerrard said when he retired from England that Rodgers told him he would have to stagger his LFC games if he continued with England. I hope that doesn't mean he's now free to carry on playing every second of our games.

[Lecter]

Last season they were better than ever but yeah this season they've gone back to being ****e, hitting the first man more often than not.

I cant remember whether I said it in here or elsewhere but I expressed a concern that we wouldnt again score as many goals from set pieces as the amount scored last year would be a total anomaly

Normality would resume sooner or later and we would go back to being ****e at them

I only wish we could have an anomaly at the set pieces against us

[Lecter]

I think Gerrard is part of defensive issue, he is not a good holding midfielder as he doesn't have the discipline or the decision making for the role imo. Sadly he has also started this season very poorly, even against Spurs we noted just how poor Gerrard was in that game. Last year we were so fluid going forward our defensive issues where not as much of a problem and we had Suarez defending from the front. This year we have not had that.

Chris, someone else would have taken the penalty. While it is an important goal and won us the game, it didn't come through Gerrard affecting play, which is the point being made.

Hes one facet of our problems imo. Taking him out the side wont resolve all our issues, it wont improve the pressing of our other players, it wont make them compete for second balls, equally it wont help the centrehalves be closer together positionally and it certainly wont help defenders being goalside or attacking the ball from set pieces

Biggest thing for me is lack of pressing and competing for 2nd balls thats a must for me

[baronvonskidmark]

It's no coincidence that when you stop Gerrard, you stop our attack. Put pressure high up the pitch or sit a player on him and we look toothless. Given time and space, Gerrard is still instrumental to how we play.

Totally agree mate and I said as much before the West Ham game.

I'm hoping that he is just starting the season slowly as an older player and will soon find a way to negate that pressure and be the Gerrard of last season post-Christmas.

[G]

Totally agree mate and I said as much before the West Ham game.

I'm hoping that he is just starting the season slowly as an older player and will soon find a way to negate that pressure and be the Gerrard of last season post-Christmas.

Very possible. We have been discussing his worth to the team early on every season for the last 3. He always improves. Needs to do it quickly though.

[captainfog]

Ah, damn, they obviously dont count. Ludo must be buzzing with their 1-1 draw.

The fact you're using a penalty to show how well he did just demonstrates how well he isn't doing. Talk about scraping the barrel.

[Chris]

The fact you're using a penalty to show how well he did just demonstrates how well he isn't doing. Talk about scraping the barrel.

Apart from the fact I've never mentioned how well he's doing anyway. Just pointing out anyone can take 1 game and use something from it.

And of course penalties are so easy eh? Which is why Dirk, Carroll, Downing, Adam and Suarez all buried theirs when he was out in 2011/2012 right? Oh, wait..

[captainfog]

I'm using his stats in the last game to illustrate how poorly he is playing. I think he's been rubbish in all 6 games this season, including the one he scored a pen.

Yes he is very good at pens.

[DannyMan2006]

To avoid all the ridiculousness, I'm not saying we should drop Gerrard, just move him further up the pitch.

[CAD]

To avoid all the ridiculousness, I'm not saying we should drop Gerrard, just move him further up the pitch.

But that makes no sense....?!

Why on earth would you move him back to again? There was a reason he was moved back, remember?

[DannyMan2006]

But that makes no sense....?!

Why on earth would you move him back to again? There was a reason he was moved back, remember?

Give him a free role somewhere on the pitch and go with that. Because being in front of the back 4 is the worst possible position for him. Fabregas is hardly dynamic and he pretty much sits just ahead of Matic. Could play there, just as Scholes did for United.

Or, Get a solid back 4 and have a reverse of the three in midfield. Have Hendo & Allen/Can alongside with Gerrard ahead.

It's less attacking, but it allows to have Gerrard still on the ball and we're in less trouble at the back. Gerrard may have never been a David Silva but he's better in the final third than Hendo & Joe Allen. Meanwhile Hendo can use his energy to assist the attacks and get up and down when the opportunity is there, while Joe Allen can pretty much sit if needs be or alternate assist forwards.

When Gerrard isn't available we have players like Lallana / Coutinho who can take that role, just as they could take positions further up the pitch ahead of Gerrard.

RB - CB - CB - LB
- - - DM - - DM - - -
--------Gerrard-------

[G]

Give him a free role somewhere on the pitch and go with that. Because being in front of the back 4 is the worst possible position for him. Fabregas is hardly dynamic and he pretty much sits just ahead of Matic. Could play there, just as Scholes did for United.

Or, Get a solid back 4 and have a reverse of the three in midfield. Have Hendo & Allen/Can alongside with Gerrard ahead.

It's less attacking, but it allows to have Gerrard still on the ball and we're in less trouble at the back. Gerrard may have never been a David Silva but he's better in the final third than Hendo & Joe Allen. Meanwhile Hendo can use his energy to assist the attacks and get up and down when the opportunity is there, while Joe Allen can pretty much sit if needs be or alternate assist forwards.

When Gerrard isn't available we have players like Lallana / Coutinho who can take that role, just as they could take positions further up the pitch ahead of Gerrard.

RB - CB - CB - LB
- - - DM - - DM - - -
--------Gerrard-------

He can still spot a pass and he can still score goals. He's isn't getting dropped, that much is clear, so take positional responsibility off him, get him away from the defence and into an area where he can cause problems for the opposition, not problems for us!

[captainfog]

The problem with moving him further up the pitch are the same problems that caused him to move back. So I don't see the logic in that solution at all.

Our style of play doesn't accommodate a Gerrard type player in the DM role. All the long passes and set pieces (when he's on form) don't make up for him not doing the defensive part of the game very well. It's key too because Rodgers is so attack minded that we desperately need a top quality DM with bags of energy who can snuff out danger in front of the back 4 because at the moment they are being horribly exposed.

I think the second half of last season his passing range, set pieces, and leadership were right up there with the best they have ever been (and those assets were very important for our impressive run), but he still wasn't a great defensive midfielder and we were having the same problems that we are experiencing now. Last season our attacking verve was able to compensate, but when that is missing we really look vulnerable. Without Suarez I think starting Gerrard every game is a luxury we can't afford. When the likes of Can and Allen are fit I'd like see Gerrard spend more time on the bench.

I wish we had Mascherano tearing about in midfield for us. He'd be perfect. Or at least someone of his ilk, it would instantly make us better IMO. I think Can could be the long term solution and it's such a shame he's injured.

[G]

Like I said,he's not getting dropped, he'll play most of our games so if he must play then he must play as far away from our goal as possible. Agree with Dannyman,two behind and him in front