I'm still inclined to blame it on money - hear me out...

[Red Chilli]

Not really buying this to be honest. If you've got no money to spend why splash out 7 million on Pennant when he's probably worth 3million if being kind. I tend to think this is more to do with Rafa's valuation of players. And I'm not sure I'm convinced by his valuations.

I'm with you but I think the truth will probably be somewhere in the middle.

Rafa doesn't like buying players for 30 million pounds and the board couldn't give him the money to do that anyway.

I'm sure Rafa knew the score when he came to the club it's not like he's been short changed compared to Houllier.

[carheex]

Not really buying this to be honest. If you've got no money to spend why splash out 7 million on Pennant when he's probably worth 3million if being kind. I tend to think this is more to do with Rafa's valuation of players. And I'm not sure I'm convinced by his valuations.

The way I see it is that we NEEDED a right winger as a priority. The board wouldn't stump up for Alves or Simao - not because they couldn't afford the 12m required, but because they wouldn't allow that much to go on one player (possibly because they had their finger burnt by houllier and his atrocious spending!)...so we had to get the best that was available for a lower fee. When you pay a lower fee, you normally get lower quality. Which brings us nicely back to the indisputable proof that having a strong squad in depth will not win you the league - it will merely give you a big wage bill. Look at Man Utd - top of the league but poor strength in depth compared to us. That has been the case for a while. The board need to open their eyes or risk losing Benitez.

[alunevans]

The way I see it is that we NEEDED a right winger as a priority. The board wouldn't stump up for Alves or Simao - not because they couldn't afford the 12m required, but because they wouldn't allow that much to go on one player (possibly because they had their finger burnt by houllier and his atrocious spending!)...so we had to get the best that was available for a lower fee. When you pay a lower fee, you normally get lower quality. Which brings us nicely back to the indisputable proof that having a strong squad in depth will not win you the league - it will merely give you a big wage bill. Look at Man Utd - top of the league but poor strength in depth compared to us. That has been the case for a while. The board need to open their eyes or risk losing Benitez.

I'm not sure there's any evidence for a "fee cap" in the way you describe.

There's also no evidence to say that Pennant was the best that was available for a lower fee. I think Pennant was horrendously overvalued. We quibbled for the sake of half a million over Figo, then lash out 7 million on Pennant. Its ludicrous.

We could have got someone to fill a gap and do it better for about 2 million. Or we could have just signed Kuyt and Alves for pretty much the same money as Kuyt, Bellamy and Pennant.

I'm not one who defends the board per se because they've made some strange decisions over the years, but to be honest I think you're maybe blaming the board here because you're not yet comfortable pointing the finger at the man who won us the European Cup.

But even so, I'm pretty certain that its his call, not Moores.

[Morph]

The way I see it is that we NEEDED a right winger as a priority. The board wouldn't stump up for Alves or Simao - not because they couldn't afford the 12m required, but because they wouldn't allow that much to go on one player (possibly because they had their finger burnt by houllier and his atrocious spending!)...so we had to get the best that was available for a lower fee. When you pay a lower fee, you normally get lower quality. Which brings us nicely back to the indisputable proof that having a strong squad in depth will not win you the league - it will merely give you a big wage bill. Look at Man Utd - top of the league but poor strength in depth compared to us. That has been the case for a while. The board need to open their eyes or risk losing Benitez.

well said

[carheex]

Or we could have just signed Kuyt and Alves for pretty much the same money as Kuyt, Bellamy and Pennant.

You say you disagree with me, then you quote the above.....which was exactly what I was saying! Why sanction the purchase of 2 mediocre players (pennant 7m & bellamy 6m), when we'd have been stronger with Alves (£12m)? the total money was clearly available but Rafa wasn't allowed to use it on one player. So now we have 2 players, both dross, and we're weaker. Do you see now?

[alunevans]

You say you disagree with me, then you quote the above.....which was exactly what I was saying! Why sanction the purchase of 2 mediocre players (pennant 7m & bellamy 6m), when we'd have been stronger with Alves (£12m)? the total money was clearly available but Rafa wasn't allowed to use it on one player. So now we have 2 players, both dross, and we're weaker. Do you see now?

Do you have any evidence to back up your statement that the only reason Rafa bought those two is because the board are operating a transfer fee cap and that this cap is 12m?

You say Rafa wasn't ALLOWED to use it on one player. Who says???

[Red Chilli]

Do you have any evidence to back up your statement that the only reason Rafa bought those two is because the board are operating a transfer fee cap and that this cap is 12m?

You say Rafa wasn't ALLOWED to use it on one player. Who says???

That's what I was trying to convey

[Morph]

or to look at it another way - 12 million wasn't enough to buy Alves so that puts paid to that idea doesn't it

[alunevans]

I thought the combined price was above 12 anyhow. Wasn't it 7m + 6.5m?

It was carheex who mentioned 12m. I'm just interested in the assertion that Rafa is banned from spending above a certain amount on one player. Its the first time I've seen that suggestion anywhere.

[Morph]

Noel white inferred it in his statements, wether there's a cap or not i'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if he was ristricted a top value in some way.

[carheex]

Do you have any evidence to back up your statement that the only reason Rafa bought those two is because the board are operating a transfer fee cap?

Of course not. I have no more evidence to prove my point than you do to disprove it. It is simply a theory, which to me, goes a long way to explaining our purchasing policy over recent years.

[Red Chilli]

Don't blame it on sunshine, don't blame it on moonlight, don't blame it on good times...

blame it on the Parry.


he just can't, he just can't, he just can't control his hair. [repeat X 2]

[alunevans]

Of course not. I have no more evidence to prove my point than you do to disprove it. It is simply a theory, which to me, goes a long way to explaining our purchasing policy over recent years.

I wasn't actually being facetious. I thought I'd missed something. But to be fair, I think its harsh to attack the board for a policy that they don't appear to have.

[anfieldanfield]

We finished fourth in Houllier's last season in charge.

Rafa's had 80 million to spend, that's more than enough to mount a serious title challenge, as it is, we're as far away as we ever have been from bringing that trophy home.

Besides, would you trust Rafa with a massive, (40m?) budget to spend next summer ?

If Benitez rated Pennant, Gonzalez and Bellamy at combined cost of 15m, who is to say he wouldn't just piss a bigger budget away too.....

[Red_Al_77]

Rafa has had enough money to create a consistent top 4 side. We are nowhere near that. Our performances against the 'Big 3 over the last 3 seasons have shown that we are pissing in the wind when it comes to the league. Something is fundamentally wrong and I'm not gonna start blaming the board when they have allowed Rafa to spend £6.8mil on Bellamy and £6.7millon on Pennant.