Bournmouth (h) Build Up & Match Thread

[labourRed]

A couple of observations.

Klopp is getting a hard time, but had Countinho not been ill obviously that sub wouldn't have been made, but agreed i ****ing hate 5 at the back. Not just for us, any team that plays it boils my piss... it's been hard to accept that Chelsea have been successful with it but they've got the key personal in the right places - we don't.

Klopp made overtures about winning ugly, but that's not one of strengths and last night showed it. So i'd say from the interview afterwards that particular experiment is in the bin. Makes sense logically that if you don't have creative players rely on the defenders... the caveat is last night we had Klavan and Mignolet who are a long way short of quality for this.

It wasn't a disaster last night (defending aside ), we showed more attacking nous that the abysmal **** we dished up in Mane's absence in January. And at least Can, Coutinho and Divock look like their on form which they weren't then. Best to leave on a positive, right.

[Lecter]

I don't think it helps when you replace a sick no 10 with a half fit CB when holding onto a slender lead.

That substitution was screaming out for TAA to come on and stretch them and push them back and to give some support to Origi.

Bad call by Klopp, gave the wrong message, told them we were happy with 2 goals, time to sit back and let them come on to us.

A few seasons back Brendan got slaughtered for not bringing a centrehalf on to protect a lead

Now we are slaughtering Klopp for the complete opposite

I still say the logic behind bringing on Matip wasnt daft it was to shut off space in the channels, the mistake was not bringing on TAA for Firmino who was a complete passenger & liability for me after Coutinho left the field

We were essentially playing with 10 men

[Lecter]

we cant kill games - and I don't mean go on and score more goals, I mean take the sting out of opposition threat

At 1 nil Rafa's teams could shut up shop and kill all the space/danger in games and do it very very well. It infuriated a lot of people when we didn't go on and sore more goals - but his team was very good at it

A big part of our problem all over the field is 2nd balls we dont win anywhere near enough of them. I would say you've got to win an absolute bare minimum of 50% of them (its probably 70% for a top team) and I doubt we do anywhere near that

That problem with 2nd balls is amplified even more off set pieces into the box. Most of the goals we concede arent from the initial ball / cross in its from the 2nd balls. We are always slow to react to that

[Norbs]

To me theres loads of factors in it

First and foremost against lesser teams we dont press as much or show the same intensity in our passing and I definitely believe our pressing intensity sparks the rest of our game as it sets the tempo

A lot of our poor run of results have also been without Mane and I think without his pace the onus is on us to pass the ball quicker which again goes back to point 1, if we dont have the intensity we tend to go back to the dire bilge Brendans teams served up in the last 18 months or so

I think Fredo has also alluded to it being a mental problem and some of it is that

Last night for instance after they scored the onus was on our centrebacks to bring the ball forward and draw their players out to create space. Klavan and Lovren spent 15-20 minutes passing the ball across the back to each other at every opportunity, they were essentially passing the buck. This is about bottle, not stand up and fight bottle but about being brave on the ball. Only after Klopp tore strips off them during an injury break did they start to carry the ball into the space which saw an immediate upturn in our general performance as more space was found further up the pitch as players were drawn out to close either lovren or Klavan down

I also think against lesser teams some of our players show a little too much arrogance (Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can & Lallana) they all take more touches than they need to and dwell on the ball too long. Its almost a case of "we are only playing Bournemouth" so we can take all the touches we want without them doing anything. Sadly it doesnt work like that. Mane doesnt do this often and when he does he has the pace to get away from the opposition which the rest clearly dont

Last night we played some incredibly risky passes in the first 5 minutes yet still persisted it was only after we conceded did we attempt to cut these out, this is again the arrogance I mentioned as they wouldnt have attempted as many of these against top opposition as you know that you will be punished

My short reply doesn't do your whole post justice but, to the very first point, you can't press teams who don't want the ball. We're crap with the ball and so called lesser opponents are happy to let us okay it badly around to each other without penetration

[Maxiedge]

To me theres loads of factors in it

First and foremost against lesser teams we dont press as much or show the same intensity in our passing and I definitely believe our pressing intensity sparks the rest of our game as it sets the tempo

A lot of our poor run of results have also been without Mane and I think without his pace the onus is on us to pass the ball quicker which again goes back to point 1, if we dont have the intensity we tend to go back to the dire bilge Brendans teams served up in the last 18 months or so

I think Fredo has also alluded to it being a mental problem and some of it is that

Last night for instance after they scored the onus was on our centrebacks to bring the ball forward and draw their players out to create space. Klavan and Lovren spent 15-20 minutes passing the ball across the back to each other at every opportunity, they were essentially passing the buck. This is about bottle, not stand up and fight bottle but about being brave on the ball. Only after Klopp tore strips off them during an injury break did they start to carry the ball into the space which saw an immediate upturn in our general performance as more space was found further up the pitch as players were drawn out to close either lovren or Klavan down

I also think against lesser teams some of our players show a little too much arrogance (Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can & Lallana) they all take more touches than they need to and dwell on the ball too long. Its almost a case of "we are only playing Bournemouth" so we can take all the touches we want without them doing anything. Sadly it doesnt work like that. Mane doesnt do this often and when he does he has the pace to get away from the opposition which the rest clearly dont

Last night we played some incredibly risky passes in the first 5 minutes yet still persisted it was only after we conceded did we attempt to cut these out, this is again the arrogance I mentioned as they wouldnt have attempted as many of these against top opposition as you know that you will be punished

This is what it comes down to for me but also from a defensive point of view too.

[Lecter]

My short reply doesn't do your whole post justice but, to the very first point, you can't press teams who don't want the ball. We're crap with the ball and so called lesser opponents are happy to let us okay it badly around to each other without penetration

You dont have the ball 100% of the time (particularly when you are **** in possession as you have stated) so there is always an opportunity to press

The fact is when lesser teams have the ball we dont close them down anywhere near quickly enough (like we do with the top teams)

[Doc_Piptorious]

I dont get it either, it completely baffles me!

v the top 7 - 12 games, 26 points, 10 conceded. That is ****ing stunning, the best in the league. We should be in a title race at worst with stats like those yet we may not even make top 4!

v the ****. 19 games, 34 points, 29 conceded. That is ****ing awful. That goals conceded column is disgusting, Spurs and Chelsea havent even conceded that all season! Like what the ****, theres teams down there that can barely score a goal, average 1 goal per game over the whole season yet are sticking 2s and 3s past us. How we can pretty easily shut down Hazard, Costa, Kane etc but then get the run around v these no marks is baffling. It's so weird. A simple low percentage cross in to our box seems to cause complete chaos, it should be the easiest thing to defend! We will struggle to get anywhere till it's sorted, Spurs have lost at Anfield, Chelsea, Utd, drew at City and Arsenal yet are going to finish above us because they waste most of the **** teams to nil. Same with Chelsea, heck even Man ****ing City are getting clean sheets v the crap. Only we could **** up what is a completely simple path to Champions League football. **** sake.

A sobering read.


What we badly lack is a flat track bully or two in the team. The sort of player who turns up against the lesser teams and pads his stats against them.

We have no problem getting ourselves up as a team against the big guns (much as the so called lesser teams do against us) but we don't have guys who relish going after the lower placed teams.

[Doc_Piptorious]

To me theres loads of factors in it

First and foremost against lesser teams we dont press as much or show the same intensity in our passing and I definitely believe our pressing intensity sparks the rest of our game as it sets the tempo

A lot of our poor run of results have also been without Mane and I think without his pace the onus is on us to pass the ball quicker which again goes back to point 1, if we dont have the intensity we tend to go back to the dire bilge Brendans teams served up in the last 18 months or so

I think Fredo has also alluded to it being a mental problem and some of it is that

Last night for instance after they scored the onus was on our centrebacks to bring the ball forward and draw their players out to create space. Klavan and Lovren spent 15-20 minutes passing the ball across the back to each other at every opportunity, they were essentially passing the buck. This is about bottle, not stand up and fight bottle but about being brave on the ball. Only after Klopp tore strips off them during an injury break did they start to carry the ball into the space which saw an immediate upturn in our general performance as more space was found further up the pitch as players were drawn out to close either lovren or Klavan down

I also think against lesser teams some of our players show a little too much arrogance (Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can & Lallana) they all take more touches than they need to and dwell on the ball too long. Its almost a case of "we are only playing Bournemouth" so we can take all the touches we want without them doing anything. Sadly it doesnt work like that. Mane doesnt do this often and when he does he has the pace to get away from the opposition which the rest clearly dont

Last night we played some incredibly risky passes in the first 5 minutes yet still persisted it was only after we conceded did we attempt to cut these out, this is again the arrogance I mentioned as they wouldnt have attempted as many of these against top opposition as you know that you will be punished

Good post and found myself nodding to a lot of the points you made.

[Fosterbloke]

A sobering read.





What we badly lack is a flat track bully or two in the team. The sort of player who turns up against the lesser teams and pads his stats against them.



We have no problem getting ourselves up as a team against the big guns (much as the so called lesser teams do against us) but we don't have guys who relish going after the lower placed teams.

Danny Ings perhaps?

[danperkins]

I dont get it either, it completely baffles me!

v the top 7 - 12 games, 26 points, 10 conceded. That is ****ing stunning, the best in the league. We should be in a title race at worst with stats like those yet we may not even make top 4!

v the ****. 19 games, 34 points, 29 conceded. That is ****ing awful. That goals conceded column is disgusting, Spurs and Chelsea havent even conceded that all season! Like what the ****, theres teams down there that can barely score a goal, average 1 goal per game over the whole season yet are sticking 2s and 3s past us. How we can pretty easily shut down Hazard, Costa, Kane etc but then get the run around v these no marks is baffling. It's so weird. A simple low percentage cross in to our box seems to cause complete chaos, it should be the easiest thing to defend! We will struggle to get anywhere till it's sorted, Spurs have lost at Anfield, Chelsea, Utd, drew at City and Arsenal yet are going to finish above us because they waste most of the **** teams to nil. Same with Chelsea, heck even Man ****ing City are getting clean sheets v the crap. Only we could **** up what is a completely simple path to Champions League football. **** sake.

That's quite incredible really. Turn it on for the top sides and then capitulate for the lower sides. It's beyond a coincidence at this stage, mentality has to be an issue somewhere in there?

Jaco makes a good point actually too, a flat track bully to bang in goals against the fodder would be exactly what we need.

[danperkins]

To me theres loads of factors in it

First and foremost against lesser teams we dont press as much or show the same intensity in our passing and I definitely believe our pressing intensity sparks the rest of our game as it sets the tempo

A lot of our poor run of results have also been without Mane and I think without his pace the onus is on us to pass the ball quicker which again goes back to point 1, if we dont have the intensity we tend to go back to the dire bilge Brendans teams served up in the last 18 months or so

I think Fredo has also alluded to it being a mental problem and some of it is that

Last night for instance after they scored the onus was on our centrebacks to bring the ball forward and draw their players out to create space. Klavan and Lovren spent 15-20 minutes passing the ball across the back to each other at every opportunity, they were essentially passing the buck. This is about bottle, not stand up and fight bottle but about being brave on the ball. Only after Klopp tore strips off them during an injury break did they start to carry the ball into the space which saw an immediate upturn in our general performance as more space was found further up the pitch as players were drawn out to close either lovren or Klavan down

I also think against lesser teams some of our players show a little too much arrogance (Firmino, Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can & Lallana) they all take more touches than they need to and dwell on the ball too long. Its almost a case of "we are only playing Bournemouth" so we can take all the touches we want without them doing anything. Sadly it doesnt work like that. Mane doesnt do this often and when he does he has the pace to get away from the opposition which the rest clearly dont

Last night we played some incredibly risky passes in the first 5 minutes yet still persisted it was only after we conceded did we attempt to cut these out, this is again the arrogance I mentioned as they wouldnt have attempted as many of these against top opposition as you know that you will be punished

yeah agree with all of this.

[Fosterbloke]

That's quite incredible really. Turn it on for the top sides and then capitulate for the lower sides. It's beyond a coincidence at this stage, mentality has to be an issue somewhere in there?

Jaco makes a good point actually too, a flat track bully to bang in goals against the fodder would be exactly what we need.

Let's sign Lukaku...

[Doc_Piptorious]

Danny Ings perhaps?

I reckon he is gone in the summer. Just cannot see him retaining what pace he had after two separate ops for ACLs

[Doc_Piptorious]

Let's sign Lukaku...

Not wishing to open a can of worms but guys like him or Kane tend to punish the non top six back lines on a regular basis. Our front men score in spurts against those teams


We have the players that can raise their games to beat the big teams, but we also have a squad that tends to suffer from ball shrinkage when a supposed lesser team raises their game against us.

[BigChief]

Not wishing to open a can of worms but guys like him or Kane tend to punish the non top six back lines on a regular basis. Our front men score in spurts against those teams


We have the players that can raise their games to beat the big teams, but we also have a squad that tends to suffer from ball shrinkage when a supposed lesser team raises their game against us.

Origi's done alright scoring against the little men this season. What would Lukaku bring additional to that? If what you're suggesting is to play a Belgian striker more often against cannon fodder then stick Origi in there for more games instead of a midfielder (Lucas) or Firmino. Why spend £100m on another Belgian striker?