Mo Salah

[Kenneth]

Because ‘assists’ is a largely bull**** metric when considering contributions to goals. Even a situation like the back heel to jota for his last goal, it’s an assist but he takes it with one touch wide of the goal, beats his man and scores across the keeper from an acute angle. It was an assist but at no point was it a ‘big chance’ until it went passed the keeper.

A big chance for opts is:

Opta defines it as: "A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter. Penalties are always considered big chances." There’s very little relationship to assists, ie last pass before a goal.

[baitman]

Jomez

[Buzzo]

Because ‘assists’ is a largely bull**** metric when considering contributions to goals. Even a situation like the back heel to jota for his last goal, it’s an assist but he takes it with one touch wide of the goal, beats his man and scores across the keeper from an acute angle. It was an assist but at no point was it a ‘big chance’ until it went passed the keeper.

A big chance for opts is:

Opta defines it as: "A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter. Penalties are always considered big chances." There’s very little relationship to assists, ie last pass before a goal.

'Assist' are not a bull**** metric though. For example, not every goal has an assist. However if you are literally touching the ball and the next person that touches the ball scores a goal, and particularly if you are doing it a lot of times, then its a worthwhile stat, no matter what the level of contribution.

Then if you are looking to evaluate a player, knowing how capable they are of being the player who touches the ball before the player who scores a goal does, then it is noteworthy.

A forward with say 20 assists is more worthwhile and valuable than a forward with none.

You are trying to retro fix the metric to prove Salah isnt as good as he is

[Exiled_red]

It is a useful metric in some cases but not in others, take the Jones goal last night, Nunez got an assist for that, but to be honest that wasn't really an assist, the person who made that goal happen was Jota, who passed the ball to Nunez, but he gets no credit.

The big chances created IMO is probably a better metric in terms of creativity it also isn't skewed by someone else not finishing a chance.

[Doc_Piptorious]

It is a useful metric in some cases but not in others, take the Jones goal last night, Nunez got an assist for that, but to be honest that wasn't really an assist, the person who made that goal happen was Jota, who passed the ball to Nunez, but he gets no credit.

The big chances created IMO is probably a better metric in terms of creativity it also isn't skewed by someone else not finishing a chance.

It gets skewed though when assists are used to bump up the chance creation stats of some and taken off of the figure for others.


I hasten to add, not by folk on here but by those compiling the "stats" and who first put them up online.

[Buzzo]

It is a useful metric in some cases but not in others, take the Jones goal last night, Nunez got an assist for that, but to be honest that wasn't really an assist, the person who made that goal happen was Jota, who passed the ball to Nunez, but he gets no credit.

The big chances created IMO is probably a better metric in terms of creativity it also isn't skewed by someone else not finishing a chance.

But it is an assist.

If we are trying to weight the quality of the assist that is something different.

For example if a player was 15 times a season able to pass the ball to another player who then went on to beat 5 players and score - it would still be useful to know that the assist player is capable of supplying the ball to althe goal scorer on a way that enabled them to beat 5 players and score.

[Doc_Piptorious]

But it is an assist.

If we are trying to weight the quality of the assist that is something different.

For example if a player was 15 times a season able to pass the ball to another player who then went on to beat 5 players and score - it would still be useful to know that the assist player is capable of supplying the ball to althe goal scorer on a way that enabled them to beat 5 players and score.

Exactly that. Any player can get an assist and often it might only be a simple pass and the receiving player then has lots to do, but, as you stated, it were a case that the same player gets into positions X times a season and on a regular basis is the assist getter then you get metrics on that player's movement, his awareness and maybe are able to build a picture of what other role he might be capable off based on his positional data.

Now you can get info about a player that regular creates what gets termed big chances as well, but the guy that is getting regular assists has some end product to what he is doing whereas the guy creating big chances may indeed be creating chances, maybe it is the receiver at fault for those chances not being converted or maybe the big chances created are played that bit too fast or too slow to be converted.

The regular assist getter on the other hand is doing something that little bit better in that it allows the finisher that extra second of time or that extra yard of space to finish.

[Exiled_red]

But it is an assist.

If we are trying to weight the quality of the assist that is something different.

For example if a player was 15 times a season able to pass the ball to another player who then went on to beat 5 players and score - it would still be useful to know that the assist player is capable of supplying the ball to althe goal scorer on a way that enabled them to beat 5 players and score.

I know it is, just the system credits Nunez and doesn't credit Jota when IMO Jota's contribution is more significant, for me that demonstrates how the stats on that can be misleading.

[Kenneth]

But it is an assist.

If we are trying to weight the quality of the assist that is something different.

Yes, ‘big chances’ created.

For example if a player was 15 times a season able to pass the ball to another player who then went on to beat 5 players and score - it would still be useful to know that the assist player is capable of supplying the ball to althe goal scorer on a way that enabled them to beat 5 players and score.

Not particularly, it mainly means they play with Mo Salah and their job is to give the ball to Mo Salah.

I’m generally not a believer in judgements by statistics. Even goals scored doesn’t tell a convincing story unless the numbers are extreme like Kane or Salah. Bobby was an example of a player that sacrificed personal goal numbers for the team as a whole, and we’d have been a worse team if he hadn’t. Assists are more blunt and stripped of context, I just don’t think they’re very useful at all when compared to qualitative judgements based on watching the games.

[Buzzo]

I know it is, just the system credits Nunez and doesn't credit Jota when IMO Jota's contribution is more significant, for me that demonstrates how the stats on that can be misleading.

By that rationale, if a player gets the ball goes round three defenders and squares the ball past the keeper to the centre forward to tap into an empty net we should probably discount that as a goal stat also?

[SB]

I know it is, just the system credits Nunez and doesn't credit Jota when IMO Jota's contribution is more significant, for me that demonstrates how the stats on that can be misleading.

[Charly]

Bobby didnt get many assists either, but we all knew he was integral to how we operated.

If Nunez can makes the same kind of contribution (as he is currently) people will acknowldge that. Same with Jota.

[peterbread]

Bobby didnt get many assists either, but we all knew he was integral to how we operated.

If Nunez can makes the same kind of contribution (as he is currently) people will acknowldge that. Same with Jota.

In the end it’s about winning and it doesn’t matter who scores or assist or whatever. It’s about how the team functions and wins. Do we really care if he scores as many as others players as long as he is contributing to us winning which he is.

If he causes teams problems and takes the focus away from others letting them have more space and time than that’s just as important.

[SB]

In the end it’s about winning and it doesn’t matter who scores or assist or whatever. It’s about how the team functions and wins. Do we really care if he scores as many as others players as long as he is contributing to us winning which he is.

If he causes teams problems and takes the focus away from others letting them have more space and time than that’s just as important.

I certainly don’t care as long as he’s contributing like he is now & we are winning. Good to see you posting more lately too. You on holidays?

[peterbread]

I’m enjoying this season and liking the use of the squad and younger players and feel there is more to discuss. Also because I’m in England now it’s easier to watch most games time wise and get into the discussion right after.

No holidays, I look after my dad so I’m home a bit. Also enjoy my late nights when it’s quieter.