Southampton vs Liverpool - Premier League (18/19 - Game 33)

[Norbs]

‘Lads, just go out and win this one early this time ok’

Start with 6 forwards. Punt it long to Mo, Mo you wellie it and the rest stick the rebounds in. Take off 3 forwards and stick on 3 defenders. Easy

[Irishnev]

Milner has been a bit up and down form wise recently. I thought Henderson had a good first half v Spurs, we lost the midfield battle tactically in the second half.

I’d go Fab/Gino/Hendo

I must watch different games to you Buzzo although the lens I watch it through is probably more biased

I thought our midfield was terrible and the balance was all wrong with Henderson being the worst in the ball for all the time he was on. Fabinho has to be the first midfielder Klopp picks for me - he did more in 20 mins than the other 3 did in the whole game. I don’t know why Klopp keeps going back to Gini, Hendo, Milner as we have seen (eye test anyway) that it has been the worst performing in the big games. He is clearly a great manager but he has a blind spot when it comes to midfield.

I know I bang the drum in this but for me we have outgrown Lallana, Lovren, Henderson, Moreno etc. we can play one of Henderson or Milner but not both as they are similar but Milner is better for me. I think 10 players should be a shoe in - back 5, front 3, Gini and Fab + one more midfielder.

[cannotmakeit]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...cking-16058744

The reasons Jurgen Klopp keeps picking Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum as the Liverpool midfield
Is there an underlying reason behind the Liverpool boss selecting the trio?

An hour before kick-off on Sunday afternoon, the teams were announced for the top of the table clash between Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur at Anfield.

For the Reds, the goalkeeper was a given, the defence was as expected, and the attacking trio was locked in place as usual.

But the midfield that was chosen, as always it seems, resulted in bickering amongst supporters.

Once more, Jurgen Klopp had opted for his three trusted lieutenants - Jordan Henderson, James Milner and Gini Wijnaldum - to do a job for him. The decision was largely met with confusion, especially considering Fabinho's growing influence as a stand-out performer.

Despite the relief and elation of the last-gasp win, there remains an overriding thought amongst some supporters regarded why Klopp continues to select a midfield that consists of players that seem defensive, and limited, in an attacking sense.

Is there an underlying tactical reason?

Firstly, in order to demonstrate an example of why the midfield in question could be deemed suitable in some scenarios, rewind to March when Liverpool faced Watford. The Reds ran out 5-0 winners on the day, but crucially, all five assists came from the team's full-backs.

Watford are renowned for their 4-2-2-2 system, which is incredibly narrow and centrally-focused. From a Liverpool perspective, if the opposing team is going to attack through the middle, then it makes logical sense to be defensive in that area, and to then instead attack relentlessly using the flanks.

On the day, Liverpool hit more crosses than they usually average, as well as with better accuracy, with the cross map pictured below.

Ultimately, the 'defensive' selection of Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum won't always matter offensively, as it can often depend on the opposing team and how Liverpool have planned to attack them.

Also, the three are fairly justified to start against top opposition, such as Bayern Munich for example, as pressing becomes Liverpool's playmaker in those fixtures.

Higher quality teams commonly demonstrate a sense of pride and willingness to play, and Klopp's side can press them into errors and consistently win the ball in dangerous areas as a result.

In those match scenarios, the midfield has to offer a little more than tactical understanding and ball-winning ability, so the lack of creative threat isn't detrimental. Klopp's favoured midfield three are highly suited in these situations, as their dueling ability and aggression allows opposing errors to be enforced.

Liverpool's attackers can then spring forwards and counter once the ball is gained, with the likes of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner staying back in most cases.

In the case of Spurs, due to their limited options in midfield, it's reasonable to suggest that Liverpool anticipated the formation or approach that would be employed by Mauricio Pochettino.

The first half consisted of countless efforts to switch the play from one flank to another, with both Alexander-Arnold and Robertson consistently free and available, shown below.

Robertson switches the play to find Alexander-Arnold free on the opposite flank
Robertson switches the play to find Alexander-Arnold free on the opposite flank (Image: Wyscout)
The opening goal of the match came as a result of this, with Robertson able to assume possession as a free-man and drive forwards before hitting a cross to Roberto Firmino, shown below.

Again, the logic behind opting for a 'conservative' midfield largely made sense, with the threat held by Spurs being mainly central considering the likes of Harry Kane, Christian Eriksen and Dele Alli. Objectively, the idea is to attack using the two full-backs and the three attackers to an extent, with the midfield three then offering defensive assurance and cover from counter-attacks.

However, although the rationale behind situationally opting for a cautious midfield explains the likes of Naby Keita, Adam Lallana and Xherdan Shaqiri's exclusion, it doesn't apply to Fabinho.

The Brazilian is predominantly a defensive player, with his role being very similar to Henderson's for the most part.

In this case, Klopp's reasoning is harder to justify, as Fabinho appears to offer a lot of what Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum do, as well as providing a level of composure and control that is valuable amidst the chaos.

Perhaps it's due to Fabinho being less mobile than the three in question in terms of pace and recovery speed, and he isn't sure enough to be able to cover the ground required yet against a top side such as Spurs. On the other hand, the three midfielders have played under Klopp for many years now, and are more ingrained in the system than Fabinho who is still relatively new.

It could also be character-related considering the stature of the match, with Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner all being considered as leaders amongst the squad - compared to Fabinho who is one of the newest faces. These are aspects that can't be truly determined, but it's reasonable to suggest they may be influencing things.

Ultimately, the uproar relative to Klopp's midfield selection is understandable, but it's not always warranted. Often, the orthodox three are chosen with view to either covering for the attacking mindset of the full-backs, or to provide a pressing base from which the team can counter-attack from.

However, in the case of Fabinho, the logic appears harder to justify without training ground experience or inside knowledge, as he appears capable enough in terms of ability and playing style to feature against virtually any opponent.

[Buzzo]

I must watch different games to you Buzzo although the lens I watch it through is probably more biased

I thought our midfield was terrible and the balance was all wrong with Henderson being the worst in the ball for all the time he was on. Fabinho has to be the first midfielder Klopp picks for me - he did more in 20 mins than the other 3 did in the whole game. I don’t know why Klopp keeps going back to Gini, Hendo, Milner as we have seen (eye test anyway) that it has been the worst performing in the big games. He is clearly a great manager but he has a blind spot when it comes to midfield.

I know I bang the drum in this but for me we have outgrown Lallana, Lovren, Henderson, Moreno etc. we can play one of Henderson or Milner but not both as they are similar but Milner is better for me. I think 10 players should be a shoe in - back 5, front 3, Gini and Fab + one more midfielder.

Second half 100% but first half we were well on top and should have been more than 2 up. Second half Spurs had us tctically. The reason we were lucky-ish was when we went 424 We were getting destroyed on the break, and though bringing 1 of Hendo or Milner off was the right thing2 was cavalier, we were a bit lucky - We deserved that luck though for being bold.

We are too of the League with only one defeat Henderson has played a lot and is therefore a big part of that. Moreno will leave - but I doubt we will get better guys willing to sit on the bench than Lovren or Lallana.

[Angryred]

How are Southampton likely to approach this? Park the bus for a vital point or press us higher to catch us by surprise? I would guess at the former but they're at home and might want to continue their attacking momentum.

Which is why I'm expecting a conservative midfield from Klopp again.

Southampton's attitude to this match will depend on the outcome of Cardiff's result against City.

[frank the tank]

Second half 100% but first half we were well on top and should have been more than 2 up. Second half Spurs had us tctically. The reason we were lucky-ish was when we went 424 We were getting destroyed on the break, and though bringing 1 of Hendo or Milner off was the right thing2 was cavalier, we were a bit lucky - We deserved that luck though for being bold.

We are too of the League with only one defeat Henderson has played a lot and is therefore a big part of that. Moreno will leave - but I doubt we will get better guys willing to sit on the bench than Lovren or Lallana.

I thought Henderson slowed things up at the weekend. First half included. His passing wasn't sharp either. Even the ball he put out to Robertson for the first goal was a ****e pass - only made good by the defender heading it into Robbos path. I like Henderson. I like the way he talks to all his teammates and I think he genuinely has a tactical brain. But for me, Fabinho can be the best midfielder in the league. He has Roy Keane / Patrick Viera levels of potential. So for me, Fabinho has to be first pick. And Henderson should be mixing it up with Gini for a place alongside. And then hopefully next season, Oxlade and Keita are also competing for the remaining place.

Henderson is also a very able guy to have in case Fabinho gets injured or needs a rest. So it's all positive.

Regarding the whole "who do we get for the bench that is better than Lovren / Lallana" question, I think the answer has to be a player that thinks he is good enough to play every week. To be a top team, you need to have players that are not happy when they are not playing. We will need about 16 to 18 players that think they will play in LFCs best team possible. That is what all of the top teams have - but we don't. As Nev pointed out, we have about 10 spaces in our team that are bankers. That should be around 7 to be a top top team.

So for me, we should be going out to get someone like De Ligt if possible - and say to Gomez, "prove that you can keep your place". In reality there will be enough games over a season. But if you look at Man City defence, then I think that Stones, Ottamendi, Laporte all think that they are a "first choice defender" for them. And if Kompany could get 100% fit, then he would possibly regard himself as one too. That is where we need to get to.

So I wouldn't be too surprised to see 4 or 5 signings this summer - with Moreno, Sturridge, Origi, Lovren, Lallana, Matip, Clyne and possibly even Shaqiri all moving on.

[Buzzo]

I don’t disagree with most of that tbh.

Though I genuinely doubt that volume of changes and the likes of Lallana, Matip and Lovren will move on. We are top of the League and 1/4’s of the CL.

We do need some quality backup in positions but I’d say Fullbacks and Forwards are the priority.

[Irishnev]

I thought Henderson slowed things up at the weekend. First half included. His passing wasn't sharp either. Even the ball he put out to Robertson for the first goal was a ****e pass - only made good by the defender heading it into Robbos path. I like Henderson. I like the way he talks to all his teammates and I think he genuinely has a tactical brain. But for me, Fabinho can be the best midfielder in the league. He has Roy Keane / Patrick Viera levels of potential. So for me, Fabinho has to be first pick. And Henderson should be mixing it up with Gini for a place alongside. And then hopefully next season, Oxlade and Keita are also competing for the remaining place.

Henderson is also a very able guy to have in case Fabinho gets injured or needs a rest. So it's all positive.

Regarding the whole "who do we get for the bench that is better than Lovren / Lallana" question, I think the answer has to be a player that thinks he is good enough to play every week. To be a top team, you need to have players that are not happy when they are not playing. We will need about 16 to 18 players that think they will play in LFCs best team possible. That is what all of the top teams have - but we don't. As Nev pointed out, we have about 10 spaces in our team that are bankers. That should be around 7 to be a top top team.

So for me, we should be going out to get someone like De Ligt if possible - and say to Gomez, "prove that you can keep your place". In reality there will be enough games over a season. But if you look at Man City defence, then I think that Stones, Ottamendi, Laporte all think that they are a "first choice defender" for them. And if Kompany could get 100% fit, then he would possibly regard himself as one too. That is where we need to get to.

So I wouldn't be too surprised to see 4 or 5 signings this summer - with Moreno, Sturridge, Origi, Lovren, Lallana, Matip, Clyne and possibly even Shaqiri all moving on.

I like Henderson also but not as a starter in the ‘big’ games. Would he get into City’s team or other big European clubs....probably not. I 100% don’t want him to leave this summer as there are far more pressing gaps in the squad.

[danperkins]

I must watch different games to you Buzzo although the lens I watch it through is probably more biased

I thought our midfield was terrible and the balance was all wrong with Henderson being the worst in the ball for all the time he was on. Fabinho has to be the first midfielder Klopp picks for me - he did more in 20 mins than the other 3 did in the whole game. I don’t know why Klopp keeps going back to Gini, Hendo, Milner as we have seen (eye test anyway) that it has been the worst performing in the big games. He is clearly a great manager but he has a blind spot when it comes to midfield.

I know I bang the drum in this but for me we have outgrown Lallana, Lovren, Henderson, Moreno etc. we can play one of Henderson or Milner but not both as they are similar but Milner is better for me. I think 10 players should be a shoe in - back 5, front 3, Gini and Fab + one more midfielder.

[memzey]

I agree with most of what is said above regarding Fabinho. I think he is more progressive and should start more often than not. I’d caveat that with the observation that he does tend to stupidly give the ball away a couple of times a game though which might make him more suited to opposition less likely to hurt us in Klopps’ eyes.

[Assassin]

It could have just been the case over the weekend that Fab wasnt fully fit or nursing a knock. Maybe Klopp is getting a little smarter with not mentioning injuries/niggles with key players. We have seen Big Shaq sitting on the bench for a few weeks when he has been carrying an injury problem. The opposition dont know this and would be wary of him coming off the bench and causing havoc. Why else would he sitting there when we could have put a youngster on the bench?

[Bender]

Interesting from Klopp....
[ame]https://twitter.com/JamesPearceEcho/status/1113429899988078592[/ame]

[S-RED]

Massive game today, nerves kicking in already

[Bender]

Joe Gomez in the Squad

[Norbs]

Joe Gomez in the Squad