Chelsea (H) 28.08.21

[fabinho]

Why are you concerned about poster's blasé attitude? We don't run the club, our attitude has no bearing on the club's success.

Why discuss anything we don't have a direct influence or control over at all?

Close down the forum, everyone step away from your tablets and return to your real lives

[RedReet]

Thats a good point, and maybe adds a little perspective to concerns, but I think some posters are being a little too blase about our aging squad and the longterm individual form of some of our best players, coinciding with the final 2 seasons of the force of nature that is Klopp.

One thing I definitely disgaree with is the "supporters" comments on a forum. Someone made the comment to me before, something along the lines of "why don't your try supporting the club instead of..." To me this is a little forum, we're not supporting the side here, we're discussing the club. Thats two entirely different things. I've been up to Anfield a couple of times over the last few weeks, and that is where you show support, not here, this has no impact on the team. Being overly positive or negative here has zero impact on our performances, so its a free for all where things can be discussed.

By any chance was that me?

I was happy to let it go the other day, but why not take the bait.

So here you are defending the right to be overly negative about LFC, on a Liverpool forum. Fair enough, good on you.

Talking positively about Utd on here is like trying to reason with a flat earther

So, to get this straight, it's fine to whinge and moan about the team you support because it's good for conversation. But to be negative about our biggest rivals (odd concept on an LFC forum, I know ), reduces the poster to some sort of imbecile, or a flat earther as you put it? Absolutely no hypocrisy there at all.

It was a very similar line to Roboklopps 'Brexiter' comment, in that you are both apparently making a case for balanced discussions, but at the same dismiss those that don't share your views as not being enlightened enough to have a conversation with.

It must have been an absolute ball on here last January/February.

[Venton]

Nah not having that.

Sure those teams have lost the league and come back again. City did drop off dramatically the year we won it from the previous season but they won it last year being nowhere at the level of previously. They lost loads. They won at a canter due to the huge squad and the weird season. Chelsea and Utd won leagues and lost leagues and came back but their form wasn't massively different in those years. Our form (not necessarily results) and attacking threat has been on the wane for at least 18 months. I think it would be klopps biggest achievement to get this set of players to the levels we've seen before. They're older, the extra zip and energy just isn't there, maybe the hunger has gone. The formation is on the whole easy to nullify. I think the form of 2 of the 3 upfront is at about 20% the previous threat level. We need freshening up. Why don't the players swop positions anymore? Why so regimented? Play Salah central for half hour like we used to for example.

Just my take. Maybe I'm wrong and the lack of crowds has made us look worse than we are. Maybe that's a bigger influence than I've allowed for and in 10 games I'm sitting here thinking why did I write such drivel. I really hope so.

I agree, we don't play much differently than we did the years we won the cup and then the league and the team is not vastly different either. Other teams are on the upward curve at the moment and you can see the bounce in them. I think you are right, it'll be a massive achievement by Klopp to get this same team up to the same place as it was before.

[RedReet]

Its the done thing now, trying to shut down debate with strawman arguments or the use of extremes. "Would you rather we were run like Barcelona???". As though there's no inbetween of being well run pushing for success OR risking bankruptcy.

As you said, aging squad, lack of ambition and Klopps contract will be a pretty good storm to test how the club is really being run.

Straw man arguments?

You responded to a poster who used solid facts to show that we are in a good position, by saying 'that's in the past, look to the future'.

Ignoring the fact that it isn't in the past, it's current, your 'argument' is that your version of the future is what people should be worried about. That is a great argument and hard to disagree with, **** the facts.

[Big-Red-Ed]

I know why people are concerned. I think our current first 11 peaked the year before we won the title. City and everyone else were poor in the title winning year and although we were still outstanding I feel we have at best stood still. Obviously last season there were huge mitigating factors for our poor season last year. But we are essentially saying to the team of 3 years ago go ahead and repeat that golden age. It very rarely happens. This squad needs a refresh in a couple more key areas. A striker and a midfielder. The kids coming through like Curtis and Harvey look great but we can't rely on them to be the difference.

YNWA

[danperkins]

Thats a good point, and maybe adds a little perspective to concerns, but I think some posters are being a little too blase about our aging squad and the longterm individual form of some of our best players, coinciding with the final 2 seasons of the force of nature that is Klopp.

One thing I definitely disgaree with is the "supporters" comments on a forum. Someone made the comment to me before, something along the lines of "why don't your try supporting the club instead of..." To me this is a little forum, we're not supporting the side here, we're discussing the club. Thats two entirely different things. I've been up to Anfield a couple of times over the last few weeks, and that is where you show support, not here, this has no impact on the team. Being overly positive or negative here has zero impact on our performances, so its a free for all where things can be discussed.

[labourRed]

The half-fullers vs the half-emptiers

I've been on football forums for 15-20 years. Basically since they've been a thing and it's always been this way.

I've been through the full spectrum but now we've won the PL I'm feeling more centrist and a little bit tapped out tbh (but also trapped because you know, just when you think you're out, they pull you right back in). But now both sides of the ailse grate on me.

[fabinho]

By any chance was that me?

I was happy to let it go the other day, but why not take the bait.

So here you are defending the right to be overly negative about LFC, on a Liverpool forum. Fair enough, good on you.



So, to get this straight, it's fine to whinge and moan about the team you support because it's good for conversation. But to be negative about our biggest rivals (odd concept on an LFC forum, I know ), reduces the poster to some sort of imbecile, or a flat earther as you put it? Absolutely no hypocrisy there at all.

It was a very similar line to Roboklopps 'Brexiter' comment, in that you are both apparently making a case for balanced discussions, but at the same dismiss those that don't share your views as not being enlightened enough to have a conversation with.

It must have been an absolute ball on here last January/February.

"I was happy to let it go" Who do you think you are??

If you think I've been "overly negative", then good for you, but I wouldn't call it that.

The Utd thing was just in relation to the massive investment in the squad, and the fact that the Ronaldo deal won't be that much after sales of merchandise. Each time people were constantly dismissing absolutely everything, probably for no other reason than it was Utd.

It was you came out with the "try supporting the club" bollocks. It's a forum ffs. We're not supporting the club here, we're talking about the club we support! Do you see the difference?

[RedReet]

"I was happy to let it go" Who do you think you are??

If you think I've been "overly negative", then good for you, but I wouldn't call it that.

The Utd thing was just in relation to the massive investment in the squad, and the fact that the Ronaldo deal won't be that much after sales of merchandise. Each time people were constantly dismissing absolutely everything, probably because it was Utd.

It was you came out with the "try supporting the club" bollocks. It's a forum ffs. We're not supporting the club here, we're talking about the club we support! Do you see the difference?

Clearly just some flat earther that can't see into the future.

[labourRed]

I have to say I've enjoyed reading these last few pages.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I know why people are concerned. I think our current first 11 peaked the year before we won the title. City and everyone else were poor in the title winning year and although we were still outstanding I feel we have at best stood still. Obviously last season there were huge mitigating factors for our poor season last year. But we are essentially saying to the team of 3 years ago go ahead and repeat that golden age. It very rarely happens. This squad needs a refresh in a couple more key areas. A striker and a midfielder. The kids coming through like Curtis and Harvey look great but we can't rely on them to be the difference.

YNWA

I do not think our best XI has peaked, but an arguement could be made that some of them have and personally I would agree with anyone that says some of our team may have peaked though I still think our current squad as it stands today is potentially good enough to win either the title or CL this season.

Our backline has not peaked imho and it is possibly stronger now than the past few seasons. given it has Tsimikas and Konate added to the players that I think have not peaked yet ( TAA, Gomez, Matip, VVD, Robertson and Alisson)

So straight away from those players we would be able to make up five of any starting eleven.


Midfield is where some players most certainly have peaked imo. I think Henderson, Milner and Chamberlain have all peaked as players and are all on a downward trajectory now albeit with some heading downward faster than others. Would go as far as to say that the order of going downhill for them from furthest gone to least furtherest gone would be Chamberlain, Milner and Henderson.

Thiago is a funny one for me as despite his age I do not think he has hot that downward trajectory yet, more that he has plateaued as a player and his style of play and level of talent probably would allow him to stay at his current level for another season or two.

Fabinho I think is still improving as a player and is a season or so from his peak.

Keita who know as he should really still be improving and moving towards his peak as a player but with his injuries it really is hard to say. My gut says that if he is to peak yet as a player that it may be with another team.

Elliot and Jones are young lads and I think they have years to go before they are brought into any talk about peaking.

Up front we pretty much have one guy I think still has loads left in the tank and who has not peaked in Salah. One I am on the fence about as to whether or not he has peaked in Mane and one who I do think has peaked but who may have something to offer albeit more as a squad player than a nailed on starter in Firmino.

Jota does not need much said as he is nowhere near his peak.


Cannot disagree with your comment about a striker and midfielder either as I have been saying myself that I would love to see another attacker that is good enough to put pressure on Bobby for a starting berth (someone like Martinez) or one that is good enough to be able to stand in for Mane without there being the sort of drop off we have right now down to the likes of Origi (maybe someone like Sarr.)

In midfield I would love to see someone that brings more physicality to our options. Some that has decent pace, strength, gets stuck in and if he is able to get goals or assists then that is a big bonus. The sort of guys I would love to see us get one of or at least a player of similar style would be the likes of Valverde, Zakaria or if we were feeling flush go after one of the two big talents in the French league.


Think we do have a very good squad as we are now, but one that could do with one or two players in within a window or two to give us that refresh and to allow the new players to settle before the current ones are too far past their peaks

[Buzzo]

I've been on football forums for 15-20 years. Basically since they've been a thing and it's always been this way.

I've been through the full spectrum but now we've won the PL I'm feeling more centrist and a little bit tapped out tbh (but also trapped because you know, just when you think you're out, they pull you right back in). But now both sides of the ailse grate on me.

So basically you agree with your own POV and every one else can do one?

I like it

[rudedog]

I think some fans had got so used to the pre-Klopp cycle of constant false dawn followed by crushing disappointment.This recent period of success has totally freaked them out and it's only taken a couple of months of bad form for them to revert back to their natural state of hand wringing, doom mongering and self-flagellation

[fidget]

Add a smattering of united worship and you’re spot on

[danperkins]

"I was happy to let it go" Who do you think you are??

If you think I've been "overly negative", then good for you, but I wouldn't call it that.

The Utd thing was just in relation to the massive investment in the squad, and the fact that the Ronaldo deal won't be that much after sales of merchandise. Each time people were constantly dismissing absolutely everything, probably for no other reason than it was Utd.

It was you came out with the "try supporting the club" bollocks. It's a forum ffs. We're not supporting the club here, we're talking about the club we support! Do you see the difference?

tribal reaction because it's United. Maybe a bit of envy at their spending & a bit of worry that they might be catching up with us.