Rio Ngumoah

[peterbread]

Add in the two young CB’s in Leoni and Jacquet. Plus Kerkez at LB. Plenty of the future team is already at the club. I’d expect another big window in the summer to try and get as much as possible. The future is definitely looking good squad wise.

[frank the tank]

Going to be very exciting in the next couple of years if the stars align and the following transpires:

- Rio continues to progress, in a year to 18 months time is a starter
- Wirtz gets better and better as he adjusts further to the league and continues to build his physique
- Hugo does the same
- Isak starts his lfc career properly and finds some form
- We add another wide attacker - maybe someone like Yan Diomande who I've never seen play but is obviously going to be a worldie. Or Nico Williams maybe yes please.

I still think we are a top central midfielder and a few defenders away from being a brilliant team after that but there is definitely unreal potential there.

[Doc_Piptorious]

But Slot hates him...doesn't he?............

[peterbread]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c62d7dxz5wwo

[Scratch]

I wouldn't start him but I would give him at least 30 minutes every game. Perfect running against tired legs. He should be on for salah every game regardless of the score.

That's the catch-22 tho, we are so often, at the end of a game, looking for a moment of inspiration to unlock a packed defence, and (rightly or wrongly) Slot feels that Salah could have just one moment in him, whereas Rio is an unknown and has yet to prove himself. Even yesterday, when he chipped that ball to the back stick for Hugo to balls up the header, you could see that initially Gomez was fuming cos the higher percentage play was to pass to Joe and him to put in the cross.

Plus, if he comes on and fluffs his lines, it won't help if he's got a mountain of expectation on his shoulders. He needs to come on and have no pressure on him to provide a magic moment.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I meant from the point of view of not having any players that can dribble by opposition, Mo hasn't been able to do that for a few seasons.

True enough though would argue Wirtz and Ekitike are both good at going by a player or two using a bit of skill and we also have Frimpong who is a decent dribbler but better at skinning someone by knocking the ball past them and switching in the afterburners (albeit he is out at present).


Though think you may more mean someone that has both great dribbling ability and also has the sort of pace that worries a back line. Think that may be where our supposed interest in guys like Yan Diomande is coming from, as those that buy the players may well be thinking the same as you in terms of what we need.

[danperkins]

Think it is pretty obvious (with the advantage of hindsight of course).

Salah was coming off of a close to career best season in terms of return and Gakpo was coming off of a pretty good season too.

Don't think anyone saw the decline of both (to the degree it is now) coming. Sure maybe a small drop off but we would still have been expecting Salah, in the league alone, to get into double figures (high teens maybe) for goals and the same for assists and we would have been expecting maybe 10 goals and close to 10 assists from Gakpo in the league too.


Enough to make up the difference whilst new players settled anyway. No way was the sort of drop off both suffered expected imo. And similar could be said for the huge drop off seen in guys like Mac Allister and Konate (off pitch stuff notwithstanding for both).

I reckon the plan was based on Salah and Gakpo between them giving at least 75% of last season's G/A return (not an unreasonable assumption imo to expect them to do that. 75% of their own numbers that is. ) and buying a season before having to bring in someone(s) new out wide.

I meant from the point of view of not having any players that can dribble by opposition, Mo hasn't been able to do that for a few seasons.

[BobTheCharmer]

I wouldn't start him but I would give him at least 30 minutes every game. Perfect running against tired legs. He should be on for salah every game regardless of the score.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Yeah, I get the call for Rio but it's just that we are a bit desperate for change, genuine pace and positivity but he's much better suited for 20 or 30 mins vs fading defences imo. Chiesa will run and work, that in itself is huge and much more than what Salah offers, considering Mo's productivity has dropped off a cliff. Slot has made us harder to score against, the defence has improved but without Wirtz we looked absolutely lost going forward. It's so glaring the lack of pace and a player that can actually beat a man, I'm not sure how we got into this position.

Think it is pretty obvious (with the advantage of hindsight of course).

Salah was coming off of a close to career best season in terms of return and Gakpo was coming off of a pretty good season too.

Don't think anyone saw the decline of both (to the degree it is now) coming. Sure maybe a small drop off but we would still have been expecting Salah, in the league alone, to get into double figures (high teens maybe) for goals and the same for assists and we would have been expecting maybe 10 goals and close to 10 assists from Gakpo in the league too.


Enough to make up the difference whilst new players settled anyway. No way was the sort of drop off both suffered expected imo. And similar could be said for the huge drop off seen in guys like Mac Allister and Konate (off pitch stuff notwithstanding for both).

I reckon the plan was based on Salah and Gakpo between them giving at least 75% of last season's G/A return (not an unreasonable assumption imo to expect them to do that. 75% of their own numbers that is. ) and buying a season before having to bring in someone(s) new out wide.

[Exiled_red]

Think Rio is still very much at the level where starts would not help him compared to 10 to 20 min (not including added on time) cameos against tired legs late on in games.

Reckon if he were starting against fresh full backs and midfielders he would get caught early in games with some physical treatment and then be running on fumes later on.

On the other flank I would very much be splitting minutes between Salah and Chiesa and make it clear to Salah that he has 60 minutes to empty his tank out there so no need to conserve energy, and then let Chiesa go all out for the remaining 30. Would be doing that at least until Frimpong is back.

Sorry wasn't clear in how I put that across, I wasn't so much saying he should start regularly I agree with points about his development etc, more a in an ideal world those two are more of what I would like to see us play like with players we have in the squad at the moment. It wouldn't happen for a variety of reasons

[danperkins]

Chiesa I would have no issue with in terms of starting games. He is a scarpper when he plays and savvy enough to give senior defenders fits with his workrate and tenacity.


Just think it is a bit early for Rio to be up against fresh defenders on a regular basis.

Actually could do the 60/30 minute think on either flank using Chiesa and Rio too. Let Chiesa harry and harrass the defenders whilst they are fresh then sub him off on the 60th or 70th so that Rio can run at them then.

And then let Salah and Gakpo compete for minutes on the opposite flank. That way it is only a max of one of Salah or Gakpo on the pitch at the same time and would mean each flank has a different style of attack. One side cutting in all the time and the other side bringing energy and directness.

Then bring in a genuine threat in the summer.

Yeah, I get the call for Rio but it's just that we are a bit desperate for change, genuine pace and positivity but he's much better suited for 20 or 30 mins vs fading defences imo. Chiesa will run and work, that in itself is huge and much more than what Salah offers, considering Mo's productivity has dropped off a cliff. Slot has made us harder to score against, the defence has improved but without Wirtz we looked absolutely lost going forward. It's so glaring the lack of pace and a player that can actually beat a man, I'm not sure how we got into this position.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Rio getting more game time is good but yeah being a starter is just because we are desperate to find solutions to the ****ness of Gakpo and Mo. Ideally everyone is fit, Rio can get some cameos, as does Chiesa & Gakpo and Mo are benched and we have genuine width and pace there instead. Currently we are hobbling along, riding our luck and hoping for the best & also Slot is like anti Epstein, he hates kids & also hates Chiesa.... maybe he hates Italians too i dunno. Rio & Chiesa aren't the answer but they also need more game time, especially when lads ahead of them in the pecking order are performing woefully.

Chiesa I would have no issue with in terms of starting games. He is a scarpper when he plays and savvy enough to give senior defenders fits with his workrate and tenacity.


Just think it is a bit early for Rio to be up against fresh defenders on a regular basis.

Actually could do the 60/30 minute think on either flank using Chiesa and Rio too. Let Chiesa harry and harrass the defenders whilst they are fresh then sub him off on the 60th or 70th so that Rio can run at them then.

And then let Salah and Gakpo compete for minutes on the opposite flank. That way it is only a max of one of Salah or Gakpo on the pitch at the same time and would mean each flank has a different style of attack. One side cutting in all the time and the other side bringing energy and directness.

Then bring in a genuine threat in the summer.

[danperkins]

Rio getting more game time is good but yeah being a starter is just because we are desperate to find solutions to the ****ness of Gakpo and Mo. Ideally everyone is fit, Rio can get some cameos, as does Chiesa & Gakpo and Mo are benched and we have genuine width and pace there instead. Currently we are hobbling along, riding our luck and hoping for the best & also Slot is like anti Epstein, he hates kids & also hates Chiesa.... maybe he hates Italians too i dunno. Rio & Chiesa aren't the answer but they also need more game time, especially when lads ahead of them in the pecking order are performing woefully.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I know Frimpong isn't fit at the moment but I'd quite like to see how we looked with Ngumoha on the left and Frimpong on the right. My concern earlier in the season was a potential lack of goals, but given Salah and Gakpo can't hit a barn door I'm less concerned about that now

Think Rio is still very much at the level where starts would not help him compared to 10 to 20 min (not including added on time) cameos against tired legs late on in games.

Reckon if he were starting against fresh full backs and midfielders he would get caught early in games with some physical treatment and then be running on fumes later on.

On the other flank I would very much be splitting minutes between Salah and Chiesa and make it clear to Salah that he has 60 minutes to empty his tank out there so no need to conserve energy, and then let Chiesa go all out for the remaining 30. Would be doing that at least until Frimpong is back.

[Exiled_red]

I know Frimpong isn't fit at the moment but I'd quite like to see how we looked with Ngumoha on the left and Frimpong on the right. My concern earlier in the season was a potential lack of goals, but given Salah and Gakpo can't hit a barn door I'm less concerned about that now