Alexander Isak

[danperkins]

You are not wrong but it is with the advantage of hindsight.

They will have done a visual assessment (without the benefit of seeing replays), they will ask the player what he is feeling or in the case of some injuries what he is not feeling.

Then the player will be moved based on their best educated guess in that moment.

Yes it is not optimal to walk someone with a fracture off the pitch even if you are taking some of the weight as it can increase the healing and recovery times, but they will have done what they did based on the information available.

In some ways it is similar to VVD when the tiny T rex took him out. He also walked off of the pitch and then his injury turned out to be far worse than it initially looked.

Personally I would be favour of a stretcher being used every time if a player was being subbed off straight away for an injury that looks potentially a bad one, but would not knock those that went onto the pitch as they very much acted within the boundaries of their training.

my whole point is why take a chance, just seems so unnecessary to me, was saying it to my dad at the time. Nobody even physios, know the full extent of any serious injury until it gets scanned and assessed properly, I'm just in the air of the side of caution camp. Done now anyways and turns out probably not the greatest shout our medical staff have made.

[Cerbie]

my whole point is why take a chance, just seems so unnecessary to me, was saying it to my dad at the time. Nobody even physios, know the full extent of any serious injury until it gets scanned and assessed properly, I'm just in the air of the side of caution camp. Done now anyways and turns out probably not the greatest shout our medical staff have made.

I commented as he was going off that it looked like there was already a body bag on the stretcher. I'm not sure they were ready to carry Isak. It will be interesting to see if Slot is asked about that in the next presser.

I agree the default response should be a stretcher in cases like that. Seems we learned nothing from Pickford's assault on Virgil.

[fidget]

I think on pitch cryogenic freezing is the only safe option.
Heads must roll!

[SB]

I think on pitch cryogenic freezing is the only safe option.
Heads must roll!

Well when naughty or nice list comes out I know where your name will be

[Tatterdemalion]

I guess the point will be whether walking him off helped or exacerbated his injury. I can't imagine it helped and it kind of answers the point I've been making about his injury - in the sense of if can't be that bad if he walked off - well it is, so he shouldn't have been walked off. Hindsight is great, but why take the risk with the player? He should have been carried off, end of. Walking him off can't have helped. Made it worse? We don't and won't ever know.

[kingfunk]

Would have made zero difference to the injury in my opinion.

[danperkins]

What do I know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't but imo and yes completely devoid of any medical knowledge like everyone else on here, why take the risk. I mean our team had the hindsight of seeing that replay which we all could see clearly immediately that it was pretty horrific. Radio, "Lads eh his leg completely bent the a pretzel, best not let him walk just to be on the safe side"... just sayin.

I'm over in Cardiff for Boxing day, her sis husband is the Cardiff physio for the last 12 years or so, i'll have a chat with him and get his opinion... the perfect man to ask.

[frank the tank]

What do I know, maybe it did, maybe it didn't but imo and yes completely devoid of any medical knowledge like everyone else on here, why take the risk. I mean our team had the hindsight of seeing that replay which we all could see clearly immediately that it was pretty horrific. Radio, "Lads eh his leg completely bent the a pretzel, best not let him walk just to be on the safe side"... just sayin.

I'm over in Cardiff for Boxing day, her sis husband is the Cardiff physio for the last 12 years or so, i'll have a chat with him and get his opinion... the perfect man to ask.

I agree with you. The ****in stretcher was there and all. They knew he was going to be substituted. Why take the risk??

People say "ahhh but with the benefit of hindsight....." but that's bollocks. These guys should be trained for every scenario.....the flowchart should have been "Is it potentially serious", and the "Yes" out of that answer should have been stretcher the prick off. Theres no hindsight required there.

Also, VVD and others should have been canvassing the referee at the same time for the red.

[Kenneth]

The tibia is the weight bearing bone, not the fibula, that little I do know. But none of us have any basis to say that the medical team response was inappropriate. I guess people like to be mad a something so here we are.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I agree with you. The ****in stretcher was there and all. They knew he was going to be substituted. Why take the risk??

People say "ahhh but with the benefit of hindsight....." but that's bollocks. These guys should be trained for every scenario.....the flowchart should have been "Is it potentially serious", and the "Yes" out of that answer should have been stretcher the prick off. Theres no hindsight required there.

Also, VVD and others should have been canvassing the referee at the same time for the red.

They are trained and part of that training is how they do an in the moment assessment.

It looked bad to all watching on tv as we get to see the injury occur in real time up close and then we get replay after reply.

The guys running onto the pitch do not see that. They do visual checks, they check the range of movement, they do what some call a touch and test examination, they ask the player what he is feeling, where he is feeling it and so on. They in a very short span of time they put all that information together and decide whether to stretcher off the player or assist the player off (the player has a big say in the latter - something I disagree with tbh. But could well be that Isak refused the stretcher and the only way to get him off them would be to assist him)


As said in yesterday's post, putting weight on a fracture can potentially make it worse and it can increase healing times and so on. However based on the on pitch assessment and from what the player is relaying back, the thoughts may have been that it was not as serious as that and the player was walked (assisted) from the pitch as a result.


Do physios get things wrong? Yes of course, but generally that is with the advantage of hindsight. In the moment they follow best practise as laid out for them by the sporting organistation, by their employer and of course by their training.


Same things happen in many sports, most of the time the responders get everything right, when viewed with hindsight, and even in the times they are not perfect, their in the moment actions are nearly always correct when weighed against what they know in that moment.

[Mark79]

Yep, not a weight bearing bone and he had 2 people supporting his weight as he walked.

I think the physios were able to make a solid diagnosis and Isak left the pitch in reasonable fashion.

They were working with far more knowledge and information than any of us. Any doubts or uncertainty about the extent of the injury, then they'd surely have erred on the side of caution and used the stretcher which was already at the scene.

[danperkins]

I agree with you. The ****in stretcher was there and all. They knew he was going to be substituted. Why take the risk??

People say "ahhh but with the benefit of hindsight....." but that's bollocks. These guys should be trained for every scenario.....the flowchart should have been "Is it potentially serious", and the "Yes" out of that answer should have been stretcher the prick off. Theres no hindsight required there.

Also, VVD and others should have been canvassing the referee at the same time for the red.

That's something I shouted for immediately, blatant red card & enough wasn't made of it imo.

[danperkins]

They are trained and part of that training is how they do an in the moment assessment.

It looked bad to all watching on tv as we get to see the injury occur in real time up close and then we get replay after reply.

The guys running onto the pitch do not see that. They do visual checks, they check the range of movement, they do what some call a touch and test examination, they ask the player what he is feeling, where he is feeling it and so on. They in a very short span of time they put all that information together and decide whether to stretcher off the player or assist the player off (the player has a big say in the latter - something I disagree with tbh. But could well be that Isak refused the stretcher and the only way to get him off them would be to assist him)


As said in yesterday's post, putting weight on a fracture can potentially make it worse and it can increase healing times and so on. However based on the on pitch assessment and from what the player is relaying back, the thoughts may have been that it was not as serious as that and the player was walked (assisted) from the pitch as a result.


Do physios get things wrong? Yes of course, but generally that is with the advantage of hindsight. In the moment they follow best practise as laid out for them by the sporting organistation, by their employer and of course by their training.


Same things happen in many sports, most of the time the responders get everything right, when viewed with hindsight, and even in the times they are not perfect, their in the moment actions are nearly always correct when weighed against what they know in that moment.

Agree with what you are saying regarding assessment and have no doubts these guys are top notch & I know jack **** but what I would say is that the bench have screens and have replays in seconds for goals, offsides, red cards etc and relay it immediately. We see this in almost every game of pro football, staff showing the manager an incident seconds after it happens. By the time those physios get to Isak, our bench & viewers at home have already seen that replay 2 or 3 times.

Anyone who looked at his leg bending the wrong way can clearly see that short of being made out of rubber, that is a blatant break and whatever else... several posts in the match thread calling it immediately but then when he walked off which looked like a miracle, people said 'Ah at least it's not broken', thought that myself. They can clearly get the replay immediately, so no hindsight is needed with something so obvious. They don't have to rush either and have all the time they want to make him safe and secure if they feel it's that bad which we all knew it was. We have seen this many times with bad injuries, 5 or 10 mins is needed to secure the player and get him off the pitch safely & rightly so. Also, if Isak says yeah I'll walk and refused the stretcher which may have happened, surely they are the medical staff and should say.. eh sit the **** down Alex, you don't know what you're talking about & you're in shock. There doesn't seem to be any positives for walking on a fresh break & yes I know jack **** about broken bones but even I knew it was a break the second I seen the replay.

I just don't see any positives whatsoever to walking a player off the pitch with snapped leg when short of a scan, regardless of your skillset.. you just don't know the full extent. Gonna stop talking about it as I really don't know what the **** I'm talking about & I'm more than happy to take back what I said if there is a plausible medical explanation from someone smarter than me which won't be hard. I do hope Slot is at least asked the question, it won't change anything but at least you lads won't have to listen to me whinge

Anyways, poor ******* hopefully surgery went well and he's on the long road to recovery

[Paul12]

Didn't Carra walk off unaided when he broke his leg? I'm not suggesting it is a clever thing to do, just that the pain might subside after the initial hit.

[Norbs]

Didn't Carra walk off unaided when he broke his leg? I'm not suggesting it is a clever thing to do, just that the pain might subside after the initial hit.

He broke both legs didn't he or was it a double break?