We're a very average, uninspiring, one dimensional side

[Marky]

It’s only the presence of Steven Gerrard that occasionally lifts us out of this state of mediocrity, unfortunately, we're as close to being a 'one man team' as is physically possible.

If it wasn’t for our captain, the sad, but brutally harsh reality is, year in, year out, we would be scraping about in the hustle and bustle of mid table. I genuinely dread to think where on earth this football club would be without Gerrard, he’s dragged us kicking and screaming through the last five years, the fact that many fans openly claim they would prefer the 30 or 40 million, is quite simply mind boggling…

To quote Jamie Carragher… "I've said before I wouldn't swap anyone for Steven Gerrard. If you brought anyone into our team, whether it be Kaka or Ronaldinho, and took Gerrard out, we'd be a weaker team."

The past two games have illustrated this point more than any other. In both matches we spent the best part of an hour, huffing and puffing, playing Rafa’s ‘compact’ football, aimlessly driving balls up to Crouch and Kuyt and generally looking completely devoid of any pace, creativity or invention. Our last two matches would have almost certainly finished 0-0, were it not for our skipper, who is so obviously a class above every other player in our squad, it’s almost embarrassing, his two goals were superbly well taken, he's nearing his best form once again. Our current style of football is as bad, if not worse, than anything I ever saw under Houllier, we’re probably the most defensive side in the League, by quite some distance.

And, do you want to know something? It bores me out of my ****ing mind.

In fact, I’d go further than that, much further than that, I *hate* watching us play.

People talk a lot about the ‘lack of atmosphere’ at Anfield these days, did it ever occur to anyone that it’s almost impossible to get excited or involved watching the kind of mind-numbingly tedious football we have been subjected to, week in, week out for the best part of ten years ?

Besides, who can genuinely claim to get *excited* about the ‘race for fourth place’ ?

Our lack of movement up front is quite frankly my biggest concern with the current side, and a major, major weakness that needs to be addressed and put right, sooner rather than later. We’re so static up front, it’s untrue, and our side is positively screaming for a player, who possesses even the vaguest level of imagination in the final third. Pongolle and Cisse (who is back in full training by the way) are not world class footballers, they’re not the answer to all our problems, it’s debateable whether they were ever good enough to play for Liverpool club, but, without question, they would both be in my first choice side to face Portsmouth on Wednesday night, that is if Rafa hadn’t let them go without a penny back in return, of course. Why so ? Because they offer infinitely more going forward than Pennant, Bellamy, Gonzalez, Crouch etc combined, they, especially Djib, offer something ‘exciting’, a refreshing element of surprise, a bit of raw energy, pace, design. I’m sick and tired of watching ****e, robotic, footballers being given no end of praise, just because they ‘work hard’....

I’d love to say I trust Rafa Benitez with the future of this football club, but I don’t. Any trust I still maintain comes from the genius of Steven Gerrard, and Anfield’s ability to rouse itself for the big European nights. I still think we’ll win trophies under Rafa, in fact, our style of football dictates that, in the cups at least, we’ll always, always be a difficult side to beat, in fact, still I fancy us to lift something this season.

But will we ever win the Premiership under Benitez ? No, we wont.

It’s nothing to do with money, we’ve spent almost 250 million pounds over the past ten years on players, (Rafa’s had 80 million alone), that’s infinitely more than Arsenal, and not a great deal less than Manchester United, it’s not our fault Houllier and Benitez have pissed the vast majority of it away on players that were no where near good enough to mount a title challenge. For ****’s sake, we came closer to lifting the title under Roy Evans than we ever have done under the most recent two men in charge and at least we played good, attacking, ambitious football back then……

It’s a great shame and a source of real sadness to me that our greatest, proudest and most historic achievement, our eighteen league titles, will be, without doubt, surpassed by Man Utd, in the not too distant future, five years maybe, ten maximum.

I don’t care about the time or money I place into this football club, it’s the emotional investment that kills me, I’m not saying this to be controversial or contentious, and I apologise for the rather scattered, ‘rant’ nature of this post, but It’s just how I feel, I’m not losing interest in this club, that’s impossible, I’ve been well and truly sucked in, beyond all reverse. But I am losing faith, confidence and assurance with our current squad and manager. Steven Gerrard is the only bright spark dragging me from a state of complete apathy when I watch us play….

And all this after a win and a clean sheet, eh ? How depressing.

Depressing **** this lad.

[Morph]

I'm not buying that.

No manager in the footballing world can go and demand 5 first team players, apart from perhaps Mourinho and Capello. The others have to be a bit cleverer in the transfer market.

He got Aurelio early... and I don't think it was out of necessity or desperation. He knew him from his Valencia days and he's very experienced, versatile and technically capable. On paper, a very good free transfer. Paletta was another signing that was sealed quite early, and we got a promising young player for about 2M. The Echo reported that we got Gonzalez for about 1.5M, which is peanuts. Promising young player with bags of potential... can't complain.

So there we've beefed up the squad with 3 players for a total of 3.5M discounting signing-on fee's.

We had Kuyt in our sights for around 10M, which fulfills one of the striker spots... that brings us to a total of around 13.5M.

So what are we lacking?

A right-winger, another striker and cover at right-back.

Well, as we all know, we don't have the money to go out and buy for all three positions, so this is where the manager (and board) have to earn their money.

We already had a striker on our books who managed 19 goals the previous season. We had another who had managed to turn important games for us in the past. If you can't afford a top striker - why not rely on two players who have shown that they can perform to a degree in the past, if only for another season till you can afford to bring someone else in? I am of course talking about Cisse and Pongolle. What has Bellamy produced thus far? **** all. Is he going to improve our first eleven in the long run? Is he ****. Therefore, he's just another expensive squad player that we'll end up relegating to the bench or selling. Let's think long term for a change.

So if we don't sign Bellamy... that leaves us with about 14M for a RW and a RB, instead of 8M. That would have secured us Alves who could've fulfilled both, plus we probably could've gotten Neill as well.

Well certain mangers can then can't they and surprise surprise they're the managers who usually win things. We can't do that, so what might take some managers 1 season to sort out will take us 2, by which point they've improved more and we need to replace some of our older players. We'll always be a season or two behind in the regard unless one of the big 2 slips up.

There's nothing to boast about with getting 3 players for 3.5 mil, two of them have been pretty much ****e so far and Paletta isn't ready yet. Gonzalez wasn't even from this years transfer money anyway. You get what you pay for and at the moment Aurelio and Gonzalez aren't good enough.

Kuyt was a god buy (so far anway), but you can't always bank on getting a Kuyt or an Alonso can you?

And the flaws with the striker argument are 1, we were going to sell Cisse till he broke his leg, so that would have been another 8mil, but even if we'd kept hold of him he'd still have a broken leg and would be useless. At least this way we aren't paying the full whack for his wages while he recuperates. And the board didn't seem to be able to give Rafa an advance on this money even though they know it will come eventually.

Pongolle is a different matter, I'm still not convinced he good enough for the Prem, he wasn't exactly banging them in for Blackburn, and only really played his best on euro nights, a bit like his cousin Anthony. maybe he could have stayed in place of bellamy, but rafa obviously wasn't keen so why keep a player you don't want.

Bottom line is he wanted the players and the board couldn't fullfill them, and now the fans are getting impatient because what we've had to settle for aren't cutting it.

[tomasjj]

As average, uninspiring and one dimensional as you, it appears.

Seriously, I disagree with most of that, bar that we lack some movement and creativity. But dont forget that teams come to anfield and dig in with two banks of 4, leaving us almost no space. Any footballer will tell you that makes it hard to create openings.

[keniget]

What?

Arsenal won the title a couple years back. Barca have won the title two years in a row ahead of Real Madrid who have spent ridiculous sums of money each window. Sevilla won the UEFA Cup and are now challenging in La Liga. United are now top of the Premiership...

So, no... it's not just *surprise, surprise*, these are the managers that win things, is it?

As for the three squad players being nothing to boast about... who said they were?

Aurelio is a Brazilian who's had a couple of knocks and not settled into the Premiership yet - I liked him at Valencia, so will give him a while to put the horrible horrible start he's made to his Liverpool career behind him. Gonzalez is a young South American, who whilst not quite living up to his billing, has still shown the odd glimpse of quality that shows there is potential there. And Paletta isn't ready yet as you say. The fact of the matter is, the gambles we took on all three were very low risk due to the price involved. Now look at the transfers of Bellamy and Pennant.. 14M.

As for "what Cisse would've given us?" - he would've given us the ability to go out and buy a proper RW. He broke his leg, we couldn't get the money for him and the board couldn't release an advance. Rafa, and we, have to accept that. We should've held onto him instead of buying yet another expensive squad player in Bellamy. We shipped out Cisse and spend 6M on his replacement - what has he done for us so far, apart from show that he's probably not good enough to be a starter for us? We'd have had enough cover for the forward positions in Kuyt, Crouch, Fowler, Garcia and Pongolle. We didn't need to buy Bellamy, and that 6M could've gone towards buying a proper RW. That's the whole point. It's obvious Rafa didn't like Cisse as a player, but what can you do? As we've said, at a club like Liverpool, you have to work with what you've got to a degree - and Rafa should've done that, with a long-term vision in mind.

As things stand, we'll come to next summer having to get rid of the previous summers flops (again), and as usual, not have enough money to go out and buy the class we need. It's a situation we've seen time and time again, and something that fans such as yourself still don't seem to appreciate.

[rodo]

must admit yesterday was very very poor indeed and apart from the 1st half against villa and for brief spells against west ham it was pretty much the standard fayre that has been served up all season

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Lets face facts here we're playing for 4th this season.

I think we'll get that. But then the really important stuff happens.

The club has to start moving in a different direction with regards to philosophy. At boardroom level we have to start acting like a club with designs on the title (and I don't mean criticizing the manager like that nobhead Noel), which means a change; New owner, investment, new chief exec, I don't know, but right now we're miles behind on the pitch and off it. The stadium needs to be sorted or we'll really get left behind, and in the short term Rafa needs to be allowed to spend the transfer kitty as he sees fit.

If Tom's correct - and I don't doubt he is - then this summer past the board basically stopped Rafa buying Alves for £15m because it was deemed too expensive. So we ended up with Pennant and Bellamy instead. Would that happen to Demento at Old Toilet? Let Rafa do his job. Board interference has cost us in hindsight.

What's really frustrating is that we have the manager in place and about 8-10 quality players. With a little bit more we really would be up there.

[Morph]

What?

Arsenal won the title a couple years back. Barca have won the title two years in a row ahead of Real Madrid who have spent ridiculous sums of money each window. Sevilla won the UEFA Cup and are now challenging in La Liga. United are now top of the Premiership...

So, no... it's not just *surprise, surprise*, these are the managers that win things, is it?

Arsenal was in the past in a different style of Premiersip, where are they now? Real Madrid caused their own downfall, but Barca have done a good job, but rafa won the title over there as well and I'd hazard a guess that he thinks the prem is a bigger challenge. And Sevilla winning the Uefa cup mens diddly squat. We won the champs league but are no closer to the prem.

As for the three squad players being nothing to boast about... who said they were?

Aurelio is a Brazilian who's had a couple of knocks and not settled into the Premiership yet - I liked him at Valencia, so will give him a while to put the horrible horrible start he's made to his Liverpool career behind him. Gonzalez is a young South American, who whilst not quite living up to his billing, has still shown the odd glimpse of quality that shows there is potential there. And Paletta isn't ready yet as you say. The fact of the matter is, the gambles we took on all three were very low risk due to the price involved.

So wait a minute, these are the players who are going to win us the Prem? give me a break. Gonzalez and Paletta might, but they are both no where near ready. The difference bewteen how the two have had to settle in is telling. Paletta gets a go here and there because we have good quality in that area of the pitch already, Gonzalez has had to go straight in and as a result is suffering for it. Like I said tho these aren't the signings you bank on when you want to be winning titles.

Now look at the transfers of Bellamy and Pennant.. 14M.

Compromises because Rafa couldn't get what he wanted. Next....

As for "what Cisse would've given us?" - he would've given us the ability to go out and buy a proper RW. He broke his leg, we couldn't get the money for him and the board couldn't release an advance. Rafa, and we, have to accept that. We should've held onto him instead of buying yet another expensive squad player in Bellamy.

Why we went like for like, with a player we knew we wouldn't have for half the season, why keep him to sit out half the season? Sounds like good business sense to me while also saving on his wages.


We shipped out Cisse and spend 6M on his replacement - what has he done for us so far, apart from show that he's probably not good enough to be a starter for us? We'd have had enough cover for the forward positions in Kuyt, Crouch, Fowler, Garcia and Pongolle.

Pongolle and Fowler not good enough (another free btw), garcia isn't a striker.

We didn't need to buy Bellamy, and that 6M could've gone towards buying a proper RW. That's the whole point. It's obvious Rafa didn't like Cisse as a player, but what can you do? As we've said, at a club like Liverpool, you have to work with what you've got to a degree - and Rafa should've done that, with a long-term vision in mind.

Mate Cisse was ****, you've just highlighted my point if you think we need to settle for ****e that.

As things stand, we'll come to next summer having to get rid of the previous summers flops (again), and as usual, not have enough money to go out and buy the class we need. It's a situation we've seen time and time again, and something that fans such as yourself still don't seem to appreciate.

No mate you've got it wrong, I appreciate that we don't have the money and I'm quite happy to wait for Rafa's plans to come good, it's other who aren't, if you actually read my posts.

[keniget]

Heh, but that's the whole problem mate. We replace one player that's probably not good enough, for another player that's probably not good enough, spending large sums of cash in the process. If we stopped doing that, we might find ourselves in a better position.

We didn't do very well this summer, because we settled for 2nd best again and we didn't *have* to. We should've kept Cisse, bought a class RW, and waited till Jan or next summer to replace Cisse.

[Morph]

Absolutely disagree about Cisse, we had to get shot, and he'd serve no purpose at the training ground with a broken leg whilst we paid his wages would he? At least this way they paid the majority of his wages, and we will have secured ourselves a decent transfer fee, for a player wou would be considered everywhere else apart from France a flop.

If you read the post above mine, he seems to think that it was the board who weren't willing to splash the cash on the one player that Rafa wanted, instead forcing him to split it between other players. And that Noel White did make reference to this point, so I still think the issue is funds. however that isn't to blame for our poor start to the season as such.

[keniget]

Why would he serve no purpose?

He'd serve the purpose of us not spending 6M on Bellamy. He'd serve the purpose of being fit now and scoring goals - he may have his problems, but he's more of a goalscorer than Bellamy will ever be.

I really don't understand... I mean, Bellamy has contributed virtually nothing so far. Would we have missed him this season? I don't think we would've...

If we hadn't have spent 6M on Bellamy, we'd have had either more money to spend in the summer or in the future. Simple as. If you can't get the players you want, wait...

We always settle and it's left us incapable of spending big on players, season in, season out. Contrary to belief, Liverpool *do* have money and in comparison to most clubs, we spend a lot - we just piss it all away on rubbish.

[Morph]

Why would he serve no purpose?

He'd serve the purpose of us not spending 6M on Bellamy. He'd serve the purpose of being fit now and scoring goals - he may have his problems, but he's more of a goalscorer than Bellamy will ever be.

I really don't understand... I mean, Bellamy has contributed virtually nothing so far. Would we have missed him this season? I don't think we would've...

If we hadn't have spent 6M on Bellamy, we'd have had either more money to spend in the summer or in the future. Simple as. If you can't get the players you want, wait...

We always settle and it's left us incapable of spending big on players, season in, season out. Contrary to belief, Liverpool *do* have money and in comparison to most clubs, we spend a lot - we just piss it all away on rubbish.

But we wouldn't have had Cisse because he's injured would we, and he wont be ready for another 3 weeks yet.

We had no guarantees of signing Kuyt by this point in the season so we faced starting the season with a front line of Crouch and Fowler.

Tell me you could have solved that problem any other way and you're a better man than Rafa.

[rodo]

if bellamy isnt good enough for us then cisse certainly falls into the same bracket

[El Jefecito]

As for "what Cisse would've given us?" - he would've given us the ability to go out and buy a proper RW.

So who is this "proper" right winger? And don't say Alves as 15m for a RB who may not adapt to RW in a foreign country is not a risk worth taking.

BTW Get over it, Cisse is history.

[keniget]

A "proper" RW is, for a start, not Jermaine Pennant.

[Morph]

What you have to realise is that Rafa had to fill so money spots in the squad, it's easy to say with hindsight what it would have been better to do.