Brendan Rodgers

[Kenneth]

Why is it ****e to expect a manager would look to experience over youth to get him out of a hole?

Lovren in for Toure is the only one you could question. But Toure is a woeful player now. Everyone has forgotten about him last season.

He wasn't woeful last season either. He made a few slips but that happens sometimes.

[Alex]

He was. He looked so off the pace in lots of games. He had a good start, but then dipped wildly.

I cant stop remembering his horror shows against Fulham and West Brom.

[Kenneth]

Maybe if you did you'd have a more balanced view.

[DannyMan2006]

If their is a committee & the Rodgers deciding on transfers and they've had issues.. both are to blame. But as regards the way we've played, team selection, formation, tactics & setup... there is only one man responsible for that. All the finger pointing cannot detract from what's happening on the pitch.

I don't think I can overstate this enough, but even people who back Rodgers (me) will admit the short comings of him as a manager. His lack of experience at the top level is painfully obvious. He's struggled with rotation and struggled without a striker offering pace in behind.

Previous good spending in the market would have helped a great deal in both regards. If you have a high quality squad you can rotate without too many issues. Obviously if we play Barcelona, too compete we need our best XI. But to play Palace, we should be able to put out some squad players who are still better than the First XI of Palace and as such should still have to much for them.

But you look at Palace. Bolasie was the best player on the pitch, whilst Miles Jedinak just runs over Allen when he plays him. Jedinak is just an example of how unsuited Allen is to this league. He's not exactly a Coutinho or David Silva who offers some attacking verve to make up for it. I wouldn't mind, but even against Basle away, we couldn't compete with an average African player they had in their midfield that day. He was just too strong physically for us and too full of running. We couldn't compete and we couldn't win the battles, he just mopped up.

I know some of the problems are created by Rodgers. I'm sure some of the ones who've not been good enough were entirely on him. But I think that he will learn, and if he gets time to rectify those errors he will come good. He's shown what he can do. We have an inexperienced man the job. It was a mistake. But now I feel we have to stand by him.

[Alex]

Maybe if you did you'd have a more balanced view.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=84264&page=16

Look at that from Feb last year. I can find more.

I think he is a player for a lower half side. Villa is his level.

[Alex]

Anyway, that wasnt really my point. It was more that Lovren should be more than capable of playing vs Utd. He did it all last season fairly well.

[Lecter]

Why is it ****e to expect a manager would look to experience over youth to get him out of a hole?

Lovren in for Toure is the only one you could question. But Toure is a woeful player now. Everyone has forgotten about him last season.

If you are picking a side purely based on past history then you are in the ****e

Team selection should be based on form and form alone

None of those 3 players have shown form or ability to nail down a place and experience is only of value if you are performing

I remember a certain manager telling us that Poulsen and PFK would add experience to our team but that missed the obvious fundamental problem with both of those players. They were absolutely junk

Thats the same problem we have now with Lovren, Johnson & Allen

There is zero justification for playing them

[Kenneth]

Look at that from Feb last year. I can find more.

I can't because someone deleted the Kolo Toure thread.

[DannyMan2006]

Maybe if you did you'd have a more balanced view.

Toure played too many games last season.

He was bought to plug gaps. Sadly, the gaps have been oceans as opposed to little puddles and he is too often asked to step in. The more games he plays, the more errors he makes. He is not the long term answer. Short term, he was in the side and would've stayed but for injury.

I'd say we need another RCB to replace Skrtel but I think with the amount of issues we have, it'll have to wait. But if Howedes is a RCB and he's available, I'd be all over that in Januray.

[danperkins]

Lovren lacks balls. As does Skrtel and Sakho.

When a gap opens up on their side of the pitch they need to move across. Plug the gap left by the full back moving out.

In theory:

Correct

LW gets the ball out wide. Our RB moves across to challenge. Our RCB moves across. Our LCB moves across. Our LB moves across. A midfielder on the left hand side of the pitch covers any gaps near the back. The main area of danger is the area of the pitch where the ball is at. Spaces not covered can be picked a part by simple ground passes that are easier to do. A lofted ball that switches play, well they're more difficult to pull off and are more of a % pass. Only few gifted players have a high accuracy with them. Best exponent is Gerrard in our team. Most players who could do such a pass sit deeper.

Now the LW has a few options. His first option, a pass between full back and centre back is covered. A pass inside for a midfielder to run on and strike is covered by our right sided midfielder. They either have to do a random cross into the box, or just recycle the play and start again.

Incorrect

LW get the ball out wide. Our RB moves across to challenge. Our RCB stays where he is. Our LCB stays where he is. Our LB stays where he is. DANGER!!!!

Now the LW has a few options. His first option, a simple pass between full back and centre back is open. Does our right sided midfielder cover this gap? If he does, he leaves an unmarked player who can receive the ball and get an unchallenged strike on goal. If he doesn't, an attacking player can run into the space and get right at the heart of our defence, in an area of the pitch that is very dangerous. Too often, the right sided midfielder will be stuck in no mans land and cover neither area. Players that play "Between the lines" end up having a field day against us, be that Downing, Ward-Prowse or whoever.

Skrtel doesn't lack balls, he lacks brains. Everyone of our defenders do.

Play a actual DM ahead of CB's and it's always going to be better than playing someone like Gerrard there.. like we have for most of the season. Not a coincidence the CB's looked much better when Lucas came in. Lovren likes to attack everything & Skrtel always feels he needs to make a challenge... that is there problem IMO. I've heard people use progressive CB to describe Lovren... it's not that at all. He is a headless, Skrtel is too but to a lesser extent. I would say Skrtel is a bit more rash.

But play an actual DM in the DM position ahead of the CB's and will not have to vacate their area to attack balls most of the time... as the DM will be covering in the areas in front of them. We've had so much space ahead of the defence this season, Gerrard leaves so many gaps ahead of the CB's & i've lost count the amount of times Skrtel has had to come out wide to cover for Johnson. The minute Lucas came in he was sweeping up that area right across the last third.

It's all about balance and when you play a player out of position, the balance gets thrown off. Never mind playing a player in such a specific & important defensive position... when he clearly can't fulfil that role. And that is not Steven Gerrard's fault either, it's Rodgers who is to blame because he is the one insisting on playing Gerrard there. One of the several reasons why we've had such a bad season.

[Alex]

I can't because someone deleted the Kolo Toure thread.

Is it not there?

Edit: I deleted it did I!

[Lecter]

But you look at Palace. Bolasie was the best player on the pitch, whilst Miles Jedinak just runs over Allen when he plays him. Jedinak is just an example of how unsuited Allen is to this league. He's not exactly a Coutinho or David Silva who offers some attacking verve to make up for it. I wouldn't mind, but even against Basle away, we couldn't compete with an average African player they had in their midfield that day. He was just too strong physically for us and too full of running. We couldn't compete and we couldn't win the battles, he just mopped up.

But Allen offers experience and know how to play Rodgers system

Nobody should get in the LFC side based on experience, trust, past ability if they are not performing

If you are not doing an adequate enough job, then experience and ability is irrelevant

[Muddled]

All of this is ****e, I'm sorry Mudds but there is zero defence of Rodgers in this matter

Johnson has continually been picked at either right or leftback at the expense of Manquillo or Moreno there is zero justification for this other than sentiment because Johnson has been shockingly bad the whole season. Manquillo & Moreno might not have excelled but they have certainly been no worse than Johnson

Yes he replaced Lovren with Toure briefly but on Sunday when Toure was fit and after another shockingly bad performance against Basle Lovren retains his place - its mindblowing

Then we go to Allen, how he gets a game week in week out is earth-shatterring. How he seems to escape substitution after contributing nothing is crazy also and yet others - such as Lallana will be canned at an instant even if they havent been that bad

I'm so sick and tired of this **** now

Its all bollocks, hes run out of credit. He has zero excuses left and no justification for it

Manquillo and Moreno just add issues to an error prone centre-back pairing. Combine that with a 'keeper who is rock bottom and we have a crumbling defensive five with nowhere to hide.

Rodgers has tried different combinations with the centre back and full back pairings to try and eradicate these errors and this has obviously led to a back four that has never been settled.

These are issues that Rodgers has addressed and the players have continually let him down. My frustrations are aimed purely with our defensive players and I can't defend Lovren, Skrtel and Johnson.

Lallana has returned from injury and is currently playing with cracked ribs. Maybe this is why his appearances have been limited and not because Joe Allen is Rodgers' secret love child. Maybe Can is reacting to the injury he sustained earlier in the year?

Rodgers does - and should - have more credit in the bank.

[Alex]

Rodgers does - and should - have more credit in the bank.

You would hope so after almost winning us the league. No matter what happens at the moment, 7 months ago we were a gnats bollock from winning the thing. That counts for a bit.

[Muddled]

He's made some changes of late dropping Lovren & bringing Lucas back in.. but how long & how many disasters did it take for that to happen? Johnson is awful & Manquillo is young and inexperienced.. but i kind of get why he would pick Johnson at RB (Even though i can't stand him ) but at LB too in some games?

That's my take on Johnson too. I think Johnson at left-back forces him to hold his concentration longer and often looks better equipped in that position. However, his lackadaisical performances of late really do grate and when we have suitable players to step up, I'd be more than happy for him to be replaced. Unfortunately, as it stands, he is the best of a bad bunch.

Can for example is everything that Joe Allen isn't. A physical presence & progressive. Can hasn't looked out of place bar maybe one game... but just can't seem to get in even if he puts in a very good performance. There's no incentive for these players if they know their join got be dropped the next game.

I like Can's raw attributes, but I really don't think he's ready. His first five yards are as if he's moving through treacle and his running from centre midfield leaves gaping holes. His passing is alright, but his decision making when playing the ball will develop with time and experience, something that we can't afford to do in our current situation.

You say he's trying to plug holes on a sinking ship, IMO he just doesn't know what to do. Forgetting the issues of the committee for a second, the team we have are much much better than the league position and the performances have shown. The players have to take the blame too but it seems to me that Rodgers just doesn't know what players to play & where to play them.

I think Rodgers knows what he wants, but is struggling to get the players up to speed quickly enough and with each performance, players are regressing more and more.